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re: beating the drum for nerlens noel
Posted on 10/18/16 at 6:32 pm to TigahJay
Posted on 10/18/16 at 6:32 pm to TigahJay
illuminating, yet somehow still fair point
perhaps noel is better right now. whatever. they are comparable players. biyombo, 23, just got 18% of the cap. people think the noel will get 25%?
perhaps noel is better right now. whatever. they are comparable players. biyombo, 23, just got 18% of the cap. people think the noel will get 25%?
0
Posted on 10/18/16 at 6:58 pm to cgrand
You could say that about any starting center in the league. You don't run plays for him because you CANT. He has no offensive game and can't stay on the floor at the end of games because of FT shooting. "10 free points" lmao.
Posted on 10/18/16 at 7:39 pm to TigahJay
and yet...
10 points per 36
free
along with 10 rebounds 2 blocks and 2 assists
other than "he sucks" do you have anything to add to your argument?
pels do not need a usage player at center
they need a defender and a rebounder/passer/roll man
10 points per 36
free
along with 10 rebounds 2 blocks and 2 assists
other than "he sucks" do you have anything to add to your argument?
pels do not need a usage player at center
they need a defender and a rebounder/passer/roll man
Posted on 10/18/16 at 7:47 pm to cgrand
I never said he sucks. I even said he's better than biyombo. I don't want to give up a valuable asset for him and then have to sign him to a huge contract. I would rather see the team build a lineup around playing Davis at center at the end of games.
Posted on 10/18/16 at 8:00 pm to TigahJay
fair enough
if so they need a real PF
and they need Davis to stay on the floor and become a better defender
and they'll probably be awful this year without a move
I've had enough of awful
if so they need a real PF
and they need Davis to stay on the floor and become a better defender
and they'll probably be awful this year without a move
I've had enough of awful
Posted on 10/18/16 at 11:05 pm to cgrand
Philly should cut us a deal to get him back since they didn't disclose the extent of Holliday's injury
Of course they won't but they def fricked us on that trade
Of course they won't but they def fricked us on that trade
This post was edited on 10/18/16 at 11:06 pm
Posted on 10/19/16 at 4:34 am to TigahJay
Asik for Noel and swap 2d rounders ?
Posted on 10/19/16 at 5:42 am to cgrand
To me, the question is - How much do you believe in Diallo?
Because if you believe that by year 3 Diallo could do much of what Noel does (and I do), why give up a first and an additional 20-25 mil in salary in 2018-19 to get similar results?
I think Diallo will be a similar defender, with the ability to be fluid on the perimeter and guard the rim. And I think he will have a similar, if not better, offensive game.
You bring Noel in and pay him and you are essentially blocking Diallo. So, not only are you giving up a first and a ton of money, but you are also giving up Diallo's ceiling in the deal because he will never get the real opportunity to reach it. Those are the hidden costs most people never see in a deal like this
I'd rather see the staff concentrate their efforts on Diallo and try to get a similar player internally. What's the rush?
Because if you believe that by year 3 Diallo could do much of what Noel does (and I do), why give up a first and an additional 20-25 mil in salary in 2018-19 to get similar results?
I think Diallo will be a similar defender, with the ability to be fluid on the perimeter and guard the rim. And I think he will have a similar, if not better, offensive game.
You bring Noel in and pay him and you are essentially blocking Diallo. So, not only are you giving up a first and a ton of money, but you are also giving up Diallo's ceiling in the deal because he will never get the real opportunity to reach it. Those are the hidden costs most people never see in a deal like this
I'd rather see the staff concentrate their efforts on Diallo and try to get a similar player internally. What's the rush?
Posted on 10/19/16 at 6:20 am to Crewz
quote:
What's the rush?
Tend to agree here. IF they're going to move for a big, I'd much prefer Noel (and his costs) than Monroe or Okafor (though rookie control from Okafor is mighty tempting). But this season will likely be a 35 win one, loathe to give up picks to miss the playoffs again
Not too sure about Diallo ever being as good a defender as Noel is now. Also not too sure about worrying too much about a 2nd round pick years away from having real impact. Unless I missed something, its not like he's going to play much this season w/ Asik/Ajinca.
Like cgrand said, the key is Davis. he hasn't been a consistent anchor on defense and he hasn't been able to play more than 65 games regularly. until those things change, the Pels will need a legit defensive big next to him
ETA- some of this diallo/Noel stuff is timing. Pels have been win now, damn the future for the past 3 years. Now when they should be rounding into shape as a team, they've put together a more developmental team. With Davis's clock ticking, it's just a weird set up. Not bad, disorienting and leads to some confusion, for me at least
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 6:30 am
Posted on 10/19/16 at 7:09 am to corndeaux
Oh, I am not predicting what the team would prefer. I just personally don't see any rush to get marginally better this year and still likely miss the playoffs
See what you have in Diallo, get another lotto pick next year and hope Buddy works out to give you a solid young core. That's the only play to me, but I am not saying that is the route I would bet this management goes
See what you have in Diallo, get another lotto pick next year and hope Buddy works out to give you a solid young core. That's the only play to me, but I am not saying that is the route I would bet this management goes
Posted on 10/19/16 at 8:22 am to corndeaux
quote:
But this season will likely be a 35 win one, loathe to give up picks to miss the playoffs again
The only way I even consider it is if Philly would settle for getting their 2nd back and you can use Diallo to move Asik. On paper you've used a 2nd and Ish Smith to turn Asik into Noel. That completely discounts that Diallo looks much better than your typical 2nd rounder, but it would put you in a position where you have a pretty complete/balanced team, no bad contracts if Hill becomes a legit starting 3 and D wing, and the team can focus on collecting assets in hopes of upgrading in the future rather than just filling holes.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 8:34 am to TigahJay
quote:
76ers aren't giving him away for nothing.
But like top 20 protected. I'd take that, son.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 9:58 am to TigerinATL
i think y'all are projecting on diallo something that may not be there, or will not be for a while.
yes its preseason, blah blah, but freaking kris humphries had his way with diallo last night. unless diallo is going to grow 6" he's not going to be what noel already is
in any event, if i were in charge i would not be making roster decisions based on either the sinkhole that is asik, or on a 2nd round flyer with minuscule actual basketball minutes upon which to evaluate him
he's not going to play this year enough to say one way or another
yes its preseason, blah blah, but freaking kris humphries had his way with diallo last night. unless diallo is going to grow 6" he's not going to be what noel already is
in any event, if i were in charge i would not be making roster decisions based on either the sinkhole that is asik, or on a 2nd round flyer with minuscule actual basketball minutes upon which to evaluate him
he's not going to play this year enough to say one way or another
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 9:59 am
Posted on 10/19/16 at 12:20 pm to cgrand
quote:
i think y'all are projecting on diallo something that may not be there, or will not be for a while.
I agree that you don't not make a move because you hope Diallo will be a good player in 3 years. Still I have some reservations about Noel on the Pels, see my Small Ball 5 and Finishing 5 concerns. I also am curious to see what Asik looks like with 4 adequate offensive threats which should be very possible if this team ever gets healthy. Is that what made him work in Houston? Just glancing at their starting lineup that year it was Lin/Harden/Parsons/Patrick Patterson, 4 offensive threats.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 2:45 pm to cgrand
The second you sign Noel to a new deal, he is a bad contract. So I disagree with the premise that this set of moves clears the bad contracts off your books. It just sets you up to give a bigger bad contract
And the Pels aren't going to do jack shite in the years his contract is a value, so I just see zero upside. With AD, only guys I would give 15 mil or more to would be elite perimeter guys or an absolutely ideal fit big like Marc Gasoline in his prime. But that's me
And the Pels aren't going to do jack shite in the years his contract is a value, so I just see zero upside. With AD, only guys I would give 15 mil or more to would be elite perimeter guys or an absolutely ideal fit big like Marc Gasoline in his prime. But that's me
Posted on 10/19/16 at 3:05 pm to Crewz
quote:
With AD, only guys I would give 15 mil or more to would be elite perimeter guys or an absolutely ideal fit big like Marc Gasoline in his prime. But that's me
you counting holiday as "elite"?
I'd rather have Noel at 15 and a rookie or emerging PG than holiday at 20 and the bigs we have
Posted on 10/19/16 at 4:45 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I also am curious to see what Asik looks like with 4 adequate offensive threats
quote:
Is that what made him work in Houston?
he could still move pretty well on defense and they had enough threats on offense.
but there are larger league trends that have developed in the past 4 years too. more offenses are into pace/space and spreading defenses out. more defenses are willing to just flat out ignore zeroes on offense.
those trends plus his age and injury history don't make me optimistic he can sustain any sort of decent play, regardless of lineups
quote:
I'd rather have Noel at 15 and a rookie or emerging PG than holiday at 20 and the bigs we have
if i had to choose, i'd take Noel at $20 over Holiday and the bigs. pg defense is overrrated IMO and a guy like Noel anchoring the paint can help erase mistakes.
but i'm not convinced they need to make a move right now anyway
Posted on 10/19/16 at 5:22 pm to corndeaux
Noel is the type of player you overpay big money for IF you are an established team but have a hole he can fill IMO.
Otherwise, you are signing a guy that is not going to be a cornerstone but could be a barrier to attaining a necessary one.
AND in a situation like ours, where our identity and team strength is not established, where our roster will be in major flux this offseason, he immediately becomes a much higher risk asset because a role players market value is often much better if you look average to good on an established good team then look average to good on a mediocre or bad team.
Otherwise, you are signing a guy that is not going to be a cornerstone but could be a barrier to attaining a necessary one.
AND in a situation like ours, where our identity and team strength is not established, where our roster will be in major flux this offseason, he immediately becomes a much higher risk asset because a role players market value is often much better if you look average to good on an established good team then look average to good on a mediocre or bad team.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 6:25 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:
Noel is the type of player you overpay big money for IF you are an established team but have a hole he can fill IMO.
So I don't think $20M (in $100M+ cap) for a defender like Noel (and his upside) is much of an overpay, if at all
But I agree with your larger point. If the Pels had Holiday at the start and no Davis injury specter looming, I would be fine with looking at Noel for a bump to solidify a playoff spot. Because he does fit a pretty big hole on this roster. And I do think you can play Noel/Davis together in crunch time
That doesn't seem to be realistic though. So I'm skeptical of making a move/investment like this to go from 30 wins to 34
Posted on 10/19/16 at 6:31 pm to Crewz
quote:I agree. I would not want to pay him what the market is going to demand.
The second you sign Noel to a new deal, he is a bad contract. So I disagree with the premise that this set of moves clears the bad contracts off your books. It just sets you up to give a bigger bad contract And the Pels aren't going to do jack shite in the years his contract is a value, so I just see zero upside. With AD, only guys I would give 15 mil or more to would be elite perimeter guys or an absolutely ideal fit big like Marc Gasoline in his prime. But that's me
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