- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
article: "wrong ingredients for the recipe"
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:00 pm
quote:
The Pelicans would probably benefit from slowing their offense down and playing much more conservatively on defense. As currently constructed, they don’t have the talent to gamble on steals or be too aggressive in their closeouts the way that teams like Golden State are able to. Nor do they have players with the offensive awareness required to run a high-motion, read-and react-system. Instead, they’d be wise to slow things down quite a bit on both sides of the court and play to their strengths. New coaches almost always take time to figure out their roster and what types of things their players are capable of and what things they aren’t.
Gentry might eventually find the right balance between trying to instill principles he learned in previous coaching stops and figuring out what fits the current construction of the roster. Unfortunately, this current roster shares little in common with the Suns and Warriors teams that he found success with in the past. Right now, he’s cooking with the wrong ingredients.
monty-ball roster trying to play gentry-ball
4
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:16 pm to cgrand
This is actual- factual peli-sons. Gentry must adapt and play to best utilize the talent we DO have
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:38 pm to cgrand
Monty gonna land himself another HC job in a couple years. Man coached team USA pretty obvious the respect for him around the league is through the roof.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:46 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Monty gonna land himself another HC job in a couple years. Man coached team USA pretty obvious the respect for him around the league is through the roof.
Here's to hoping it's in Houston.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 2:48 pm to ShamelessPel
Seeing how Davis has regressed to playing at his rookie year level under the current regime it may be worth hiring coach monty for his player development abilities.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:18 pm to Boomshockalocka
Doesn't help that he's playing with Ryan Anderson even more. It's a reason prime Dwight wasn't as dominant on the defensive end.
As for Monty, his game 3 and 4 coaching showed how inept he can be. Issue is we signed a coach that requires a smart/high iq point guard playing heavy minutes. We have a Tyreke.
As for Monty, his game 3 and 4 coaching showed how inept he can be. Issue is we signed a coach that requires a smart/high iq point guard playing heavy minutes. We have a Tyreke.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:22 pm to htran90
Warriors can make any coach look inept. Judging a coach on how his team looks v the Warriors when they get hot is pretty foolish wouldn't you agree? Hell the warriors are making luke Walton look like red Auerbach.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 3:33 pm to Boomshockalocka
Monty refused to change his 4th quarter lineup as his team was getting killed on the boards. Regardless if golden state was balling out or not, a smart coach would at the very least try to do something if it worked or not that can't be said.
Monty's rotations were horrific and he was way over his head as can be said by PTAO.
Gentry isn't the answer, we all said that when he was signed. Monty isn't one either. He's going to become one of the many coaches that get a shot regardless based off name recognition and how players love him.
Monty's rotations were horrific and he was way over his head as can be said by PTAO.
Gentry isn't the answer, we all said that when he was signed. Monty isn't one either. He's going to become one of the many coaches that get a shot regardless based off name recognition and how players love him.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 4:00 pm to cgrand
Spot on assessment. You can't make chicken salad with chicken shite. The players do not match the scheme. They neither have it physically, nor mentally--or both.
Golden State runs this system to near-perfection. Yes, they are that good. Not anyone can run it and attain the same results. It must be exciting as a player to run such a scheme, because the defense loses every time and is unstoppable when shots are going down. But players still need to handle what they are being asked to do in order to succeed. Gentry's offense is a whole another level of difficulty, if the truth can be told.
Let's not fault Demps and Gentry too quickly. You never know with a new group what the might do when given a new challenge. They rolled the dice. It didn't work out. We can expect some player transactions if either the player rejects the change or is ill equipped to meet demands of change. Or administrative heads to roll. I hope again our organization does not become complacent. Still like the gamble. To win a c-ship you gotta be elite at something...
Golden State runs this system to near-perfection. Yes, they are that good. Not anyone can run it and attain the same results. It must be exciting as a player to run such a scheme, because the defense loses every time and is unstoppable when shots are going down. But players still need to handle what they are being asked to do in order to succeed. Gentry's offense is a whole another level of difficulty, if the truth can be told.
Let's not fault Demps and Gentry too quickly. You never know with a new group what the might do when given a new challenge. They rolled the dice. It didn't work out. We can expect some player transactions if either the player rejects the change or is ill equipped to meet demands of change. Or administrative heads to roll. I hope again our organization does not become complacent. Still like the gamble. To win a c-ship you gotta be elite at something...
Posted on 12/18/15 at 4:16 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Monty gonna land himself another HC job in a couple years. Man coached team USA pretty obvious the respect for him around the league is through the roof.
monty is great at player development and coaching under-talented rosters. he's fantastic at drawing up plays out of timeouts as well. he certainly has his weaknesses, but he improved each year he was in NOLA.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 5:19 pm to hairydude
Y'all are being quick to say that it's not gonna work.
You have to remember that they didn't have key peices during training camp and throughout the first part of the season they were trying to incorporate and teach a brand new system to guys as they came back from injury. This takes time. Old habits are a hard a thing to break, yes we might not have the highest iq guys on our roster but even the kids in remedial math eventually get it.
Tyreke still doesn't have his legs under him, I see him get winded all the time and you need to be in top shape to run this way. Eric is the best we've seen him and the defense is showing signs of improvement over the past 3 games. Asik actually hustled last game (he's still awful offensively) but I can tolerate almost any player as long as there obviously giving it everything out there. That's why I liked Lance Thomas and Lou Admunson when they were here.
Gentry needs time to figure out his rotations too. He keeps getting new peices to the puzzle and he's trying different things till it works. Golden states lineup off death wasn't built in a day.
We have a bad start to this year, but if we aren't looking like we can pull off this system by the all star break then I'll be worried. I don't think there's enough proof until then.
You have to remember that they didn't have key peices during training camp and throughout the first part of the season they were trying to incorporate and teach a brand new system to guys as they came back from injury. This takes time. Old habits are a hard a thing to break, yes we might not have the highest iq guys on our roster but even the kids in remedial math eventually get it.
Tyreke still doesn't have his legs under him, I see him get winded all the time and you need to be in top shape to run this way. Eric is the best we've seen him and the defense is showing signs of improvement over the past 3 games. Asik actually hustled last game (he's still awful offensively) but I can tolerate almost any player as long as there obviously giving it everything out there. That's why I liked Lance Thomas and Lou Admunson when they were here.
Gentry needs time to figure out his rotations too. He keeps getting new peices to the puzzle and he's trying different things till it works. Golden states lineup off death wasn't built in a day.
We have a bad start to this year, but if we aren't looking like we can pull off this system by the all star break then I'll be worried. I don't think there's enough proof until then.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 6:26 pm to cgrand
Great article. All of those Pocket Passes this season have been fantastic.
He makes very good points. The defense stuff is just troublesome because I don't know if they can simplify things on defense. ICING side PnR and giving up a dunk to the roll man just should never, ever happen.
Which comes back to questioning the brain trust. Maybe it will still work and maybe the injuries just derailed everything. But misjudging your own guys 2-3 years in this badly is pretty incredible.
He makes very good points. The defense stuff is just troublesome because I don't know if they can simplify things on defense. ICING side PnR and giving up a dunk to the roll man just should never, ever happen.
quote:
monty-ball roster trying to play gentry-ball
Which comes back to questioning the brain trust. Maybe it will still work and maybe the injuries just derailed everything. But misjudging your own guys 2-3 years in this badly is pretty incredible.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 6:57 pm to hairydude
quote:
Let's not fault Demps and Gentry too quickly
Can't blame Gentry for trying to advance his career.
Demps on the other hand is fully to blame for firing a coach who wanted a say on player personnel, hiring a beta who won't challenge him, and a beta with a long and established record as a loser. He hired the career loser despite several proven winners being available at the time the hire was made.
He could have hired a better coach, but hiring somebody who would defer to him was the bigger priority.
Demps got his yes man, and we got a 7-18 team through 25 games as a result.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 12/18/15 at 6:59 pm to corndeaux
gentry may very well be a better salesman that he is a basketball coach.
it's oversimplified but it is very hard to argue that his system relies heavily/exclusively on Nash and curry type ballhandlers
not a stretch to say that player was not on this roster
it's oversimplified but it is very hard to argue that his system relies heavily/exclusively on Nash and curry type ballhandlers
not a stretch to say that player was not on this roster
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:03 pm to cgrand
Offense with similar concepts are being run league wide
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:17 pm to GeauxToBed
General thoughts:
On gentry:If those guys were better coaches,why aren't they coaching right now? Whyd a team like Orlando settle for skiles?
Roster:Some people wanted an actual rebuild,this is exactly the type of thing(record wise performance wise) you will deal with. It's quite likely that they'll go into asset mode and go into another direction.
It makes a lot of sense surrounding AD with a couple of rookie scale deals when going into his prime and when the team is trying to contend. Having a potential second star making peanuts from 2016-2020 along with role players would be great.
On gentry:If those guys were better coaches,why aren't they coaching right now? Whyd a team like Orlando settle for skiles?
Roster:Some people wanted an actual rebuild,this is exactly the type of thing(record wise performance wise) you will deal with. It's quite likely that they'll go into asset mode and go into another direction.
It makes a lot of sense surrounding AD with a couple of rookie scale deals when going into his prime and when the team is trying to contend. Having a potential second star making peanuts from 2016-2020 along with role players would be great.
Posted on 12/19/15 at 9:53 am to cgrand
I think Gentry may be more Norv Turner than anything else.
I agree to a certain extent, but a couple of caveats.
D'Antoni made Chris Duhon, Raymond Felton, and Kendall Marshall look good. And in PHX, it wasn't wholesale changes, but rather tweaking an already powerful system.
As for GS, Curry is clearly sui generis in a way that even Davis isn't. Same time, they were 10th and 12th in offense the two years before Kerr/Gentry. What is unique about GS is, obviously, the shooting, but just as impressive is the passing. They have some of the best passers in the league at 4 different positions (Curry, Iguodala, Green, Bogut). Thompson, Barnes, and Livingston (and Lee when he was there) are at least willing and capable too. Their versatility isn't just about switching on defense.
The Pels were never going to be able to run a system like that. I had questions about what exactly they would look like specifically because of the passing on this team. I thought they would figure something else out (whoops), but I never thought it would be as flowing as the Warriors.
Again, it goes back to the fundamental question many had when they first added Holiday and Evans 3 years ago: how do you fit 3 ball dominant guards together?
quote:
it's oversimplified but it is very hard to argue that his system relies heavily/exclusively on Nash and curry type ballhandlers
I agree to a certain extent, but a couple of caveats.
D'Antoni made Chris Duhon, Raymond Felton, and Kendall Marshall look good. And in PHX, it wasn't wholesale changes, but rather tweaking an already powerful system.
As for GS, Curry is clearly sui generis in a way that even Davis isn't. Same time, they were 10th and 12th in offense the two years before Kerr/Gentry. What is unique about GS is, obviously, the shooting, but just as impressive is the passing. They have some of the best passers in the league at 4 different positions (Curry, Iguodala, Green, Bogut). Thompson, Barnes, and Livingston (and Lee when he was there) are at least willing and capable too. Their versatility isn't just about switching on defense.
The Pels were never going to be able to run a system like that. I had questions about what exactly they would look like specifically because of the passing on this team. I thought they would figure something else out (whoops), but I never thought it would be as flowing as the Warriors.
Again, it goes back to the fundamental question many had when they first added Holiday and Evans 3 years ago: how do you fit 3 ball dominant guards together?
Posted on 12/19/15 at 10:16 am to corndeaux
yes you are right it's the passing but also nobody on this team can seem to do the give it up/get it back motion nor set a decent pick. Asik only occasionally can get the defender off the ballhandler but he's useless as a roll man
so the ballhandler just dribbles around and can't run a defender off him because nobody else is looking to run a set other than drive and kick or dump it in. It's terrible basketball
as for the defense it just looks like a lack of communication and piss poor effort to me
so the ballhandler just dribbles around and can't run a defender off him because nobody else is looking to run a set other than drive and kick or dump it in. It's terrible basketball
as for the defense it just looks like a lack of communication and piss poor effort to me
This post was edited on 12/19/15 at 10:28 am
Posted on 12/19/15 at 10:50 am to cgrand
quote:
On gentry:If those guys were better coaches,why aren't they coaching right now? Whyd a team like Orlando settle for skiles?
Teams make bad hires all of the time. Gentry was a bad hire as a head coach. GM's are egotistical (Demps is no exception). Think for a moment that he fired a coach that went to the playoffs and hired a guy that is a loser, Gentry is a good assistant but bad head coach. Demps is proving he is a bad GM.
Posted on 12/20/15 at 9:54 am to cgrand
Yeah, not many guys willing to trust or sacrifice for teammates. A lot of "do it myself" with this group. That is death in this type of offense.
I really have no thoughts on defense anymore. You see them play well in spurts, then nothing. The coaching isn't reaching them, but after seeing the same thing for years with 2 different staffs, it feels like more of a player issue.
I really have no thoughts on defense anymore. You see them play well in spurts, then nothing. The coaching isn't reaching them, but after seeing the same thing for years with 2 different staffs, it feels like more of a player issue.
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News