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re: I have a question about The Prestige
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:25 pm to Breesus
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:25 pm to Breesus
quote:
One day in their teens they said "hey let's pretend to be the same guy for the next 20 or so years until we're famous and then we'll do a trick called the transported man but no one will know we have a double because we've been pretending m
Eh, this is the 19th century. Moving somewhere and erasing someone/having no one know who you and your brother are is not a difficult undertaking. I don't think they kept it up for 20 years. Maybe like 10 when they decided to be Magicians.
1
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:28 pm to Freauxzen
Perhaps the brother was Judy living somewhere else, and when he decided to create the trick they finally got together. Borden didn't show up till they split up, right?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:31 pm to Breesus
If he was truly a clone of Borden, he would have also had been missing 2 fingers since he presumably didn't start doing the trick until after he had shot his fingers off
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:31 pm to PapaPogey
quote:
If he was truly a clone of Borden, he would have also had been missing 2 fingers since he presumably didn't start doing the trick until after he had shot his fingers off
Good call
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:35 pm to PapaPogey
Was 1 finger, and it was Angier that shot it off.
Or maybe 2. Really been a while
Or maybe 2. Really been a while
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:38 pm to sicboy
It was 2 fingers, and I know it was Angier is disguise. Point is that if he had waited to clone himself before the trick, his clone would have had the same deformed hand.
eta: I just rewatched the ending. Angier said the line about the twin? a brother? and his reply was simply we were both
eta: I just rewatched the ending. Angier said the line about the twin? a brother? and his reply was simply we were both
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 5:52 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Good call
Did Angiers knee and broken leg get better after he was cloned? Maybe you get cloned as a perfect DNA match not withstanding nongenetic defects.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 6:04 pm to PapaPogey
quote:
just rewatched the ending. Angier said the line about the twin? a brother? and his reply was simply we were both
Not quite. Angier then asks "you were Fallon the whole time?" Fallon replies "we were both".
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 6:10 pm to Breesus
The Chinese magician example was to illustrate to the audience (and Angier) the difference in making a great magic trick.
Borden saw through the trick immediately. Because he was already living with it.
Angier, on the other hand, did not understand the sacrifice to make magic happen. Until he decided to die in every transported man act. He would drown again, and again willing for revenge. But he would also experience the prestige(audience reaction).
Also, the good twin was the architect/ and the one that went with Angier to the Chinese magician.
Bale's acting is so good that his facial expressions and accent were subtlety different between twins.
Borden saw through the trick immediately. Because he was already living with it.
Angier, on the other hand, did not understand the sacrifice to make magic happen. Until he decided to die in every transported man act. He would drown again, and again willing for revenge. But he would also experience the prestige(audience reaction).
Also, the good twin was the architect/ and the one that went with Angier to the Chinese magician.
Bale's acting is so good that his facial expressions and accent were subtlety different between twins.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:02 pm to Cdawg
Plus Borden/Fallon had no idea what was going on with Angier's trick even though they knew about Tesla.
They'd be in on it.
And the final Christian Bale character is the decent of the two brothers. The one that loved Sarah.
They'd be in on it.
And the final Christian Bale character is the decent of the two brothers. The one that loved Sarah.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:58 pm to Pectus
quote:
And the final Christian Bale character is the decent of the two brothers. The one that loved Sarah.
Yes...Happy Ending
Posted on 8/15/17 at 10:15 pm to ScottFowler
I think the multiverse theory of Angier holds water. It's in Nolan's realm based on his other movies, plus I think that the black cat in Tesla's experiments is to remind you of Schrödinger's cat--there's a 50-50 chance of being alive or being dead. It was random whether Angier became the one in balcony or the one in the tank. Neither was a clone, hence the "they are all your hat" comment.
The Bale vs Jackman dichotomy is that Bale was so committed to the trick that he lived the role like the Chinese master, which doesn't fit as well if his "brother" was a clone, while Jackman resorted to desperate measures and essentially cheating to beat him--hence the it's not magic/sleight of hand, it's sorcery that Tesla employs scene.
Then again I've only watched this once and it was last week. I need a rewatch.
The Bale vs Jackman dichotomy is that Bale was so committed to the trick that he lived the role like the Chinese master, which doesn't fit as well if his "brother" was a clone, while Jackman resorted to desperate measures and essentially cheating to beat him--hence the it's not magic/sleight of hand, it's sorcery that Tesla employs scene.
Then again I've only watched this once and it was last week. I need a rewatch.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:06 pm to ScottFowler
quote:
The Chinese magician example was to illustrate to the audience (and Angier) the difference in making a great magic trick.
And it's still a bullshite movie trick. But it's great foreshadowing.
I don't care if you are Barry Sanders or Herschel Walker - no old man has thighs with strength like that.
So it sort of was a bullshite perfect example - a trick in the movie, within a trick - that the real tricks in the movie were going to be bullshite too, not bullshite like all tricks but bullshite in that they aren't tricks at all. They're false beliefs that become the story.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:09 pm to sicboy
quote:
The part that confused me a little was who was the clone and who was the original. The scene where Angier was first testing it in his theater, he puts the gun nearby, starts the machine, and waits for his clone to show up......then shoots him. He installed a trap door for the "original" to fall down and be drowned. So it stands to reason that if you were stepping on the platform, you knew you were drowning. Well, the scene at the end with Fallon, Angier talks about the courage it took to the do the trip, not knowing whether you'd end up in the tank or off in the background. Guess that's a long and winded debate about the consciousness of clone, but I assumed that every night you did the trick, you were going to die an agonizing death.
I know this has already been talked about some with the "they're all your hats" line.
Does the man walking into the machine stay put? Yes.
Does the man walking into the machine get teleported? Yes.
It's both because they're identical. In the mind of the Angier that first tested the machine then shot the teleported Angier, he perhaps suspected he was walking to his death the first time he performed the trick. But after that, he remembers staying put AND remembers being successfully teleported. So each night he walks into the machine not knowing if he will be teleported or drowned.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 11:13 pm
Posted on 8/16/17 at 6:28 am to ScottFowler
They're definitely twins. The movie plays with the nature of doubleness - examining one set of natural doubles and one set of (repeatedly) cloned doubles. In both sets one is sacrificed. It's also an examination of the Jungian shadow self and the struggle with the shadow self - the Bad Twin of the Bordens is killed, partially as a consequence of his own aggression, and Angier kills his own shadow self repeatedly.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 8:32 am to Cdawg
quote:
I'm somewhat tongue-in-cheek posting now because you downvoted me.
Say what? I don't think I have ever clicked the up or down vote since they have existed.
quote:
How come the cat can clone with a metal collar but Angier takes off his ring before he steps into it on stage?
Does it have a metal collar?
Posted on 8/16/17 at 8:46 am to sicboy
I never even once considered that they are clones and not twins. I always figured they were twins, and IMO the movie confirms it. Plus:
That's what I was about to post as well. Isn't it presented in the movie that Tesla built the machine for Angier from scratch? Not that he's built it before for Fallon. It's something that Tesla creates/invents, and once he does he realizes its potential downside and immediately pleads with Angier to destroy it and not use it.
The only point I agree with Breesus on is that they one day randomly decided to team up and be the same person. But back in those times, that wouldn't be terribly difficult to pull off. If they had no family, they could've done that on their own based on what they saw from the old Chinese man. That is what Fallon explains at the end of the movie about how he doesn't know what true dedication/sacrifice is (for a good trick) and how there was nothing easy about two men sharing one life.
quote:
I finally get the clone angle, but wasn't it a new technology when Angier commissioned him?
That's what I was about to post as well. Isn't it presented in the movie that Tesla built the machine for Angier from scratch? Not that he's built it before for Fallon. It's something that Tesla creates/invents, and once he does he realizes its potential downside and immediately pleads with Angier to destroy it and not use it.
The only point I agree with Breesus on is that they one day randomly decided to team up and be the same person. But back in those times, that wouldn't be terribly difficult to pull off. If they had no family, they could've done that on their own based on what they saw from the old Chinese man. That is what Fallon explains at the end of the movie about how he doesn't know what true dedication/sacrifice is (for a good trick) and how there was nothing easy about two men sharing one life.
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