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re: Dumbledore vs Gandalf the White
Posted on 5/3/11 at 1:49 pm to Ye_Olde_Tiger
Posted on 5/3/11 at 1:49 pm to Ye_Olde_Tiger
quote:That's poetic.
Dumbledore is a man that became a wizard. Gandalf is magic that became a man
1
Posted on 5/3/11 at 1:49 pm to Flair Chops
Yeah he made solid points.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 2:03 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Green Chili Tiger
Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him so he would be the rightful owner of the Elder Wand. Thus not allowing Voldy to gain the complete power of the wand. Dumbledore knew Malfoy wouldnt kill him.
Also, he let Snape kill him because he knew this would convince Voldy into thinking Snape was on his side. Snape became Voldermort's right hand man even though he was still good.
Dumbledore's death was a perfect plan to help Harry win the war. Dumbledore knew Harry had to be the one to do it, but since he wasn't a very powerful wizard, he needed some help.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 2:05 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He does have a really good point about Draco disarming him. If Dumbledore underestimated Draco and he murdered him straight after he disarmed, then he would have been pwned. Gandalf on the otherhand would have never been disarmed by Draco.
Do you really think Malfoy could disarm Dumbledore in any situation? The only reason he did, was because Dumbledore let him. Once again, after disarming Dumbledore, Malfoy became owner of the Elder Wand. Voldermort of course doesn't know this.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 2:05 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him so he would be the rightful owner of the Elder Wand. Thus not allowing Voldy to gain the complete power of the wand. Dumbledore knew Malfoy wouldnt kill him.
Also, he let Snape kill him because he knew this would convince Voldy into thinking Snape was on his side. Snape became Voldermort's right hand man even though he was still good.
Dumbledore's death was a perfect plan to help Harry win the war. Dumbledore knew Harry had to be the one to do it, but since he wasn't a very powerful wizard, he needed some help.
So you're saying he wasn't already dying from the ring?
Posted on 5/3/11 at 2:06 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Huh?
Of course he was. He is mortal. He knew he was weak and needed to pass on the Elder Wand. He just didn't want Volderemort to get it.
Of course he was. He is mortal. He knew he was weak and needed to pass on the Elder Wand. He just didn't want Volderemort to get it.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 2:08 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Of course he was. He is mortal. He knew he was weak and needed to pass on the Elder Wand. He just didn't want Volderemort to get it.
So he made the best of a bad situation, but was basically killed by Voldemort.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 2:17 pm to Green Chili Tiger
??
Arguing with you isn't even worth it. You missed the point long ago.
Carry on
Arguing with you isn't even worth it. You missed the point long ago.
Carry on
Posted on 5/3/11 at 3:01 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him so he would be the rightful owner of the Elder Wand. Thus not allowing Voldy to gain the complete power of the wand.
No that was a mistake. Dumbledore intended for Snape to murder him, and due to the fact Dumbledore was embracing this, Dumbledore would go unconquered and thus the power of the Elder Wand would die with him. Why would Dumbledore have wanted Draco to become master of the Elder Wand? Its not like he could foresee Harry taking Draco's wand from him. Yeah it was a mistake that worked in Harry's favor, but it certainly wasn't intended. I think this is strong evidence that Gandalf could have taken Dumbledore, since Draco did defeat Dumbledore in a duel.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 3:04 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Do you really think Malfoy could disarm Dumbledore in any situation? The only reason he did, was because Dumbledore let him. Once again, after disarming Dumbledore, Malfoy became owner of the Elder Wand. Voldermort of course doesn't know this.
No this is made perfectly clear in the Deathly Hallows that Dumbledore did not intend this. 100% clear. Dumbledore explained this and then Harry explains this to Voldemort and the onlookers in the duel. He probably couldn't disarm him in any situation, but he still did. Dumbledore freezed Harry to keep him from interfering with what he knew Snape was going to do. Its even worse in the film, since Draco just point blank does it without any distraction.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 3:06 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
He knew he was weak and needed to pass on the Elder Wand. He just didn't want Volderemort to get it.
And to Draco? Why would Dumbledore want Draco of all people to have mastery of the wand? He would have to have one hell of a sense of foresight in order to predict this. If he had this amount of foresight, why wouldn't he have just gotten the Horcruxes Harry later destroyed? Snape would seem like the logical choice to pass it onto, but Dumbledore was planning on the Elder Wand's power vanishing entirely once Snape killed him.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 3:34 pm to OMLandshark
this thread is almost as much fun to read as a star trek vs star wars debate
Posted on 5/3/11 at 3:40 pm to molsusports
Magnificent thread.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 4:03 pm to Freauxzen
Gandalf
Posted on 5/3/11 at 4:27 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
OMLandshark
I see your point. There was definitely a flaw in Dumbledore's plan.
I still, however, think Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him. It was probably an instantaneous decision. Dumbledore knew Voldermort had ordered Malfoy to kill him. He also knew that if Malfoy failed, the Dark Lord would kill him and his family. This is why I think Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him, talked to him and stalled while they waited for Snape, and then let Snape kill him.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 4:35 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
I have to put this geeky thread in terms of nerdness I can understand....
Gandalf is like Yoda
Dumbledore is like Obi Wan
Gandalf is like Yoda
Dumbledore is like Obi Wan
Posted on 5/3/11 at 5:37 pm to michaelklump
The thing that gives Dumbledore the edge is that he can apparate. It's a stupidly powerful spell with no apparent cooldown. Put him in the LOTR universe and the ring is destroyed within a matter of seconds.
In a duel, Gandalf would not be able to touch Dumbledore (think Nightcrawler in XMen 2). At best it's a draw (unless Gandalf has an aoe silence spell I don’t know about in which case he can make Dumbledore his b*tch). All because of one insanely OP spell. Nerf apparation.
In a duel, Gandalf would not be able to touch Dumbledore (think Nightcrawler in XMen 2). At best it's a draw (unless Gandalf has an aoe silence spell I don’t know about in which case he can make Dumbledore his b*tch). All because of one insanely OP spell. Nerf apparation.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 5:39 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
I still, however, think Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him. It was probably an instantaneous decision. Dumbledore knew Voldermort had ordered Malfoy to kill him. He also knew that if Malfoy failed, the Dark Lord would kill him and his family. This is why I think Dumbledore let Malfoy disarm him, talked to him and stalled while they waited for Snape, and then let Snape kill him.
It was probably an instantaneous decision to freeze Harry and he thought he would have enough time to disarm and reason with Draco (or in the very least shield himself from such an attack). But he didn't and Draco disarmed him instead. I think Dumbledore's primary concern was making sure Harry didn't interfere with what Snape was going to do and have the Elder Wand's power destroyed in the process.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 5:41 pm to Ace Ventura
quote:
The thing that gives Dumbledore the edge is that he can apparate. It's a stupidly powerful spell with no apparent cooldown. Put him in the LOTR universe and the ring is destroyed within a matter of seconds.
Well the Ring could have easily corrupted both Gandalf and Dumbledore, so I'm not sure about that. And before you say Dumbledore wouldn't have been tempted by the Ring, read the Deathly Hallows. He certainly would have been.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 5:51 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Well the Ring could have easily corrupted both Gandalf and Dumbledore, so I'm not sure about that. And before you say Dumbledore wouldn't have been tempted by the Ring, read the Deathly Hallows. He certainly would have been.
I didn't say Dumbledore wouldn't be tempted by the ring, but all he would have to do is port Frodo to Mount Doom and have him drop it in. Dumbledore would never have to touch it.
This post was edited on 5/3/11 at 5:53 pm
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