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re: 15 Reasons Tim Burton’s Batman is Better Than Chris Nolan’s The Dark Knight
Posted on 8/8/12 at 3:41 pm to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 8/8/12 at 3:41 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
However, it seems like Nolan fans keep harping on realistic, realistic, and then brush off naysayers with, well it's a comic book movie, you can't expect ___. That, to me, sounds disingenuous.
I think you are taking the word 'realistic' a little too literally. By realistic, we mean that Nolan has grounded Batman in such away that it looks feasible for him to exist. That's why he doesn't make his own gadgets, that's why the villains aren't exactly the same way they are in the comics, because Nolan is trying to present to us the illusion that all of this could happen in the real world. At the end of the day, however, it is still just a movie. The plot of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight could not, I repeat COULD NOT, happen in the real world. Why should The Dark Knight Rises then be held up to this impossible standard? As I have stated before, you are taking the world "realism" too literally here.
This post was edited on 8/8/12 at 3:42 pm
1
Posted on 8/8/12 at 4:23 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
But I'm not the one holding it to that standard...However, it seems like Nolan fans keep harping on realistic, realistic, and then brush off naysayers with, well it's a comic book movie, you can't expect ___. That, to me, sounds disingenuous.
Again, the claims of realistic are not meant to be 100% literal. Critiquing a movie based on fan boy reactions or standard is, just silly.
quote:
Perhaps the use of "realistic" is not the proper description to justify Nolan's intepretation over Burton's.
Not to sound like a broken record, but again its not meant to mean 100% realistic plot. Its the look and feel that's realistic more than the plot. The Burton/Schumacher Batman's are more attempts to bring the comics are more attempts to bring the comics to life. Its shot on a back lot and meant to be more surreal, which is fine, but it is what it is. Nolan is more making an action movie than a comic book, just with a comic character as the action hero. I think he does an excellent job because I perfer the more plausable atmosphere if you will. I was never a comic book fan.
quote:
think Burton has pretty firmly established himself as a serious artist. You're entitled to not like certain of his works, but this analogy is taking it a little too far IMO.
its a joke, but I meant the Burton Batman's, not necessarily his whole resume. I saw those Batman's when they were released and always felt they were aight not great by any means, but after Begins, I just saw them as complete crap.
As far as Burton the "artist" a friend of mine had a great comment on FB when Dark Shadows came out. Something like, have you seen the new Tim Burton movie, when Johnny Depp plays a weird, alienated character is this surreal, nightmare world?
This post was edited on 8/8/12 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 8/8/12 at 4:25 pm to H-Town Tiger
Yeah, I get what you and Rolltide are saying.
OK, I lol'd a little at this.
quote:
As far as Burton the "artist" a friend of mine had a great comment on FB when Dark Shadows came out. Something like, have you seen the new Tim Burton movie, when Johnny Depp plays a weird, alienated character is this surreal, nightmare world?
OK, I lol'd a little at this.
Posted on 8/8/12 at 4:26 pm to Mo Jeaux
Seeing Burton's name on a field is a big negative for me now. He's done some good flicks, but I usually know what I'm getting when I watch one.
Big Fish was amazing, though.
Big Fish was amazing, though.
Posted on 8/8/12 at 4:30 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
Keaton was great at his house with Vale's question, and when Arliss was talking about all the statues. the "I bought it in Japan" line was great. He was so reclusive as Wayne and i loved that about him.
fantastic scene. I loved the dinner scene with Vale at the ridiculously long table and especially the scene at her apartment when Joker shows up. His inner Beetlejuice comes out
Posted on 8/8/12 at 8:45 pm to Rittdog
After reading the article, I know the guy is trolling after reading this:
quote:
Tim Burton without a doubt has lost the mojo that made him one of the quirkiest and top drawing directors of the late 80's and 90's. His last good film was Mars Attacks
Posted on 8/8/12 at 10:21 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The plot of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight could not, I repeat COULD NOT, happen in the real world. Why should The Dark Knight Rises then be held up to this impossible standard?
Right, but why use the word, "realistic," as a defense? The Nolan movies are just as based in comic book shenanigans as any other superhero movie, but for some reason people tell me that they are intelligent because they are "realistic."
Realistic isn't a vague word, where there are different interpretations. It's pretty damn specific.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the Nolan movies, and I really enjoy the Burton ones. Both are ridiculous comic book stories, and both entertain. I just don't think that the Nolan movies deserve the accolades that they receive, because the truth is that they aren't realistic, or intelligent. They are just well made comic book movies.
quote:
By realistic, we mean that Nolan has grounded Batman in such away that it looks feasible for him to exist.
Well, no, nothing about his movies makes Batman look like a character that could feasibly exist.
This post was edited on 8/8/12 at 10:23 pm
Posted on 8/8/12 at 11:56 pm to Rittdog
I actually stopped reading right here...
quote:
It’s a remarkable achievement when even George Clooney’s suit is more ascetically pleasing
Posted on 8/9/12 at 12:09 am to TH03
quote:
fantastic scene. I loved the dinner scene with Vale at the ridiculously long table and especially the scene at her apartment when Joker shows up. His inner Beetlejuice comes out
This post was edited on 8/9/12 at 12:10 am
Posted on 8/9/12 at 12:14 am to Rohan2Reed
quote:
- Nolan's bat suit, bat cave, and bat vehicles were too "high tech" or "military" looking. I prefer the sleek, stylish look over the monster trucks.
They're not practical though and would have stoke out like a sore thumb in Nolan's Batman universe.
Posted on 8/9/12 at 12:22 am to theunknownknight
quote:
I think that was the writers main point. On one hand Nolan is making this world realistic, then on the other hand, he feeds us a plot so unrealistic it would make Michael Bay blush. If he wants realistic details give us realistic plots. If he wants comic book plots don't try and pass it off as something real.
The thing is Nolan is a very emotional film director. His main goal is to make you contrast your emotions, and he never does so manipulatively either which is great. Sure he won't give a shite about a few plot holes if it gets in the way, but he tries to make it a character film first and plot oriented second. This keeps them from being perfect films since his Batman films do have a lot of plot holes.
Posted on 8/9/12 at 12:55 pm to akcheat
quote:
Right, but why use the word, "realistic," as a defense
quote:
Realistic isn't a vague word, where there are different interpretations. It's pretty damn specific.
Again, its not meant to be taken 100% literally . The author of this article and some posters are trying to use this as a weapon. Seeing as we are talking about a movie is it really necessary to qualify that "realistic" is meant relative to other movies on this genre?
quote:
Well, no, nothing about his movies makes Batman look like a character that could feasibly exist.
The city and world he lives in is based on reality and there is a degree of verisimillitude about a lot of the elements in the movie plausably exisiting. Its far more plausable than much of most comic book movies, that's the real point, not that it could actually exist.
Posted on 8/9/12 at 2:13 pm to H-Town Tiger
The bottom line to me: A good "Batman" movie has yet to be made. What we have seen is a good Burtonesque Batman, and a good "how could someone like Batman exist in the real world" Batman. I actually think Adam West Batman (or more specifically his Bruce Wayne) reflected certain aspects of the older age Batmans better than Nolan or Burton Batman's reflected ANY incarnation of Batman.
Relative to his goofy universe, at least West's Wayne comes off as intelligent and calculating. We don't see enough of that in Keaton and Bale. They are too reactionary to drive the plot, and that is where their Bruce Waynes fail. And their Batmans? Too much fist clobbering. Not that that hasn't had a place in Batman comics, but if you are going to boil down the essence of what makes Batman unique, it isn't trading punches with Bane.
Relative to his goofy universe, at least West's Wayne comes off as intelligent and calculating. We don't see enough of that in Keaton and Bale. They are too reactionary to drive the plot, and that is where their Bruce Waynes fail. And their Batmans? Too much fist clobbering. Not that that hasn't had a place in Batman comics, but if you are going to boil down the essence of what makes Batman unique, it isn't trading punches with Bane.
This post was edited on 8/9/12 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 8/9/12 at 2:29 pm to Tigercat
quote:
I actually think Adam West Batman (or more specifically his Bruce Wayne) reflected certain aspects of the older age Batmans better than Nolan or Burton Batman's reflected ANY incarnation of Batman.
I disagree, I believe that both Tim Burton and Christopher Nolan did a very good job of taking different aspects from Frank Miller's graphic novels and incorporating them into their interpretations of Bruce Wayne. The Adam West Batman was a product of his time, just like the Michael Keaton and Christian Bale Batmen were a product of their time.
quote:
Relative to his goofy universe, at least West's Wayne comes off as intelligent and calculating. We don't see enough of that in Keaton and Bale.
Come on...he may have come off as intelligent and calculating but some of the situations he was thrown into to show off his intelligence involved things that no one in recorded history could have solved on their own.
quote:
Not that that hasn't had a place in Batman comics, but if you are going to boil down the essence of what makes Batman unique, it isn't trading punches with Bane.
The Dark Knight Rises was an adaptation of three different graphic novels: Knightfall, No-Man's-Land, and The Dark Knight Returns. In all three of those graphic novels, fist clobbering was front and center throughout.
Posted on 8/9/12 at 2:49 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
taking different aspects from Frank Miller's graphic novels and incorporating them into their interpretations of Bruce Wayne.
See, that's the thing. I have no problem with that, and God know's I would rather watch the Dark Knight trilogy over goofy Adam West any day of the week, but no movie has tried hard to just do a straight up Batman. In the way that Donner, Puzo, and company tried and succeeded in doing a fairly straight up Superman.
And frankly, I think a by the numbers Batman would be awesome on the big screen. As opposed to Superman who, IMO, would be better off by digging into deeper motivations and getting different interpretations if you want a very good series of movies. (Nothing against Superman I, but after the origin story, Superman by the numbers is just boring on screen.)
Posted on 8/9/12 at 3:04 pm to Tigercat
quote:
See, that's the thing. I have no problem with that, and God know's I would rather watch the Dark Knight trilogy over goofy Adam West any day of the week, but no movie has tried hard to just do a straight up Batman. In the way that Donner, Puzo, and company tried and succeeded in doing a fairly straight up Superman.
What do you mean, "a straight up Batman"? There are over 70 years of character history where the character has gone through different incarnations, interpretations, etc. What exactly is the "definitive" Batman?
Posted on 8/9/12 at 3:07 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
What exactly is the "definitive" Batman?
i think nolan got closer than anyone, but i think the "definitive" batman needs to involve him doin gmore detective work
i loved in B:TAS how ra's al ghul always referred to batman as "detective"
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