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re: Yadier Molina 2nd best catcher in baseball at 34?
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:26 am to papz
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:26 am to papz
quote:
The answers in this thread will be heavily fantasy driven. You can't measure Molina's intangibles.
I don't think anyone is doubting the value Molina has provided. But the fact is he is 34 and likely in decline.
0
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:27 am to therick711
quote:
You're cherry picking two categories from one year.
OPS is a pretty solid measure of offensive ability. It's not "cherry picking"
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:28 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
What was it before last year?
118, which for an excellent fielding catcher is quite good.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:28 am to barry
quote:
OPS is a pretty solid measure of offensive ability. It's not "cherry picking"
Actually picking just one thing from one season to extrapolate is the definition of cherry picking.
Let me help you out. Here is the definition:
quote:
selectively choose (the most beneficial items) from what is available.
That's exactly what you did.
Maybe this year he can actually qualify statistically as a catcher.This post was edited on 3/15/17 at 9:30 am
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:29 am to papz
quote:
The answers in this thread will be heavily fantasy driven. You can't measure Molina's intangibles.
Put you can measure pitch framing and the league has caught up. Saying shite like this is just bullshite. He's a bad hitter now and his defense isn't what it used to be. If anyone thinks he's the 2nd best catcher is baseball, you're delusional. I'll buy an argument for 5-7 ish. but thats about it.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:33 am to therick711
quote:
That's exactly what you did
I picked a stat that encompasses all offense.
If i posted his BA or RBI's by itself, that would be cherry picking.
How about he has the 4th highest OPS among catchers over the last 4 seasons?
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:33 am to The Seaward
If he can keep his OPS up over .750 and cut down on his strikeouts some over the next couple years then he will be up there in this conversation IMO. Right now to me he's a solid everyday catcher with the potential to be much more. He hasn't proven enough over the course of a couple years to be in the same discussion as guys like Lucroy and Molina
This post was edited on 3/15/17 at 9:37 am
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:35 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
If he can keep his SLG% up over .750
I think that would put him in the HOF
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:35 am to barry
If your methodology is sound, this thread should be all about Wilson Ramos. Go look at his season last year. He's the best in the majors. Just ignore every other season he's played, though.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:36 am to barry
Yikes I meant OPS
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:37 am to therick711
quote:
If your methodology is sound, this thread should be all about Wilson Ramos
We are talking about this year and Ramos is recovering from his SECOND ACL tear and won't play till July. Nice try though.
I don't care what a 34 year old catcher did over his career. It's on the decline.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:40 am to barry
quote:
Nice try though.
It isn't a try. You just proved why cherry picking like you did isn't reliable. There is other information beyond Ramos' OPS that is relevant to his value. Thanks for agreeing with me. Glad to see you can be taught.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:41 am to therick711
quote:
Thanks for agreeing with me. Glad to see you can be taught.
OMG you are a fricking moron.
you still haven't said why he's not a good catcher, so i'll sit here and wait. I've already told you he's had a top 5 OPS over the last 4 years. What do you want me to do provide his cholesterol numbers and resting heart rate.
This post was edited on 3/15/17 at 9:43 am
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:42 am to barry
quote:
you still haven't said why he's not a good catcher, so i'll sit here and wait.
Who are you even talking about, asshat?
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:43 am to therick711
quote:
Who are you even talking about, asshat?
Grandal, my god, you are just arguing for arguing, you don't even know who we are talking about?
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:44 am to barry
No one in this thread is denying he's a good catcher, at least I'm not. I'm saying he isn't on the same level as what I see as the top 3 (Posey, Lucroy, Molina), and I would def take Martin over him if we are just talking about next year. You can argue others especially younger prospects like Contreras and Sanchez but it's splitting hairs. He's without a doubt a top 10 catcher in MLB IMO, which is still really good.
I think he has the potential to enter top 3 territory based on tools if he stays more consistent
I think he has the potential to enter top 3 territory based on tools if he stays more consistent
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:45 am to barry
This thread is about Molina. We're talking about Grandal and Ramos and you are using "he" out of context. No need to continue being a shitbag.
Where exactly did you take away I said he wasn't a good catcher?
quote:
Grandal
He's very intriguing to me. Has an awful lot of tools. Interested to see what kind of numbers he puts up this year. He isn't near the top based on reputation so far, though.
quote:
I disagree. I think he's correctly rated. His numbers are relatively middling, yet people recognize his tools and potential so they elevate him beyond what he has shown thus far.
quote:
Lots of power, no doubt.
quote:
You're cherry picking two categories from one year. That's fine, but you have to acknowledge that a more holistic look at his entire body of work doesn't tell that kind of story. It should be noted that he wasn't even a qualifier at Catcher last year based on his playing time. Very interesting player, though.
Where exactly did you take away I said he wasn't a good catcher?
This post was edited on 3/15/17 at 9:48 am
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:52 am to therick711
quote:
Where exactly did you take away I said he wasn't a good catcher?
You said i was cherry picking stats, which would insinuate those stats were misleading. So if you think he's a good offensive catcher, then why the frick are you busting my balls about posting stats that support it.
At age 34 Molina's defense isn't what it used to be. His pitch framing and running game defense are bother average now. They no longer make up for his lack of a bat.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:54 am to sms151t
quote:
I would not take Posey over Molina.
You're high.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 9:56 am to barry
quote:
You said i was cherry picking stats, which would insinuate those stats were misleading. So if you think he's a good offensive catcher, then why the frick are you busting my balls about posting stats that support it.
Because you cherry picked two stats from what so far can only be described as an outlier year for Grandal. I then illustrated the reasoning to you by showing you Ramos' outlier year last year and saying that you can't necessarily make sweeping conclusions about a player's ascent in baseball based on one year--to say nothing of one or two categories in one year.
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