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re: Will there ever be a greater pitcher than Nolan Ryan in the modern era?
Posted on 7/20/16 at 11:54 am to McCaigBro69
Posted on 7/20/16 at 11:54 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
In the modern era, yes.
Ill take Pedro,Maddux, and Johnson over Ryan.
0
Posted on 7/20/16 at 11:57 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
In the modern era, yes.
Are you excluding the following from the "modern" era?
Greg Maddux
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Sandy Koufax
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 11:58 am
Posted on 7/20/16 at 11:58 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Best in the modern era, no. That's not even a good troll
yeah way too obvious.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:02 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
I agree, even though I lmao at the OP. He may be hitting Jeter territory in this respect. It became so cool to hate on Jeter--and I was guilty of this myself--mainly because of how much better ARod and for a short time Nomar were, that he became so overrated, he's underrated. He's the poster boy of this.
this is a by-product of internet hyperbole. without researching it, i'd say Ryan is a top 20-25 guy MAYBE top 15, so hardly "under" rated in my view, but there is no way he is #1 of his own era, let alone the "modern" era.
Jeter is a decent comparison, but imo by far the most overrated baseball player of all time is Pete Rose.
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:08 pm to H-Town Tiger
sandy koufax may me be considered a modern era pitcher in baseball history but i dont think OP was thinking that when he said modern era
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:09 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher of all time.
Thank you. It needs to be said. Dude has assumed some sort of mythical status for some reason. Yes, he was great. Yes, he has the no-hitters. No, he is not in the top 10 pitchers of all time.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:12 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Jeter is a decent comparison, but imo by far the most overrated baseball player of all time is Pete Rose.
Ironically, being banned from the Hall is the best thing that ever happened to Rose. He's Rod Carew with a better storyline. Only, ya know, Carew is a lot better.
Ryan is not a top 15 guy. He threw a ton of strikeouts, but he was also a walks machine with a career ERA of 3.19 in a pitchers' era. His career ERA+ is 112. That's tied for 275th all-time, tied with guys like Wislon Alvarez, Orel Hersheiser, and Frank Viola. Good pitchers, but not all-timers. Ryan wasn't all that great at the most important job a pitcher has: preventing runs.
He was one of the most entertaining pitchers ever, but nowhere the best.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:15 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Ha. Ryan walked waaaaaay too many people. Pedro was better by a decent margin.
I remember a quote by Bill James about Nolan Ryan which really stuck with me. He said "Ryan was not a great pitcher because he never gave in. He could be behind 2-0 to the #8 hitter in the lineup and he would still be throwing the ball as hard as he can to strike out the batter instead of letting them put the ball in play. He had the mentality of a rookie pitcher for his entire career." Compare that mentality to a pitcher like Roger Clemens who would be perfectly satisfied if a hitter swung at a 2-0 pitch and ended up grounding out to short and it's easy to see why Clemens was a great pitcher while Ryan was simply a very good pitcher.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:18 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:never got to watch him but that makes sense. ive always felt like most great pitchers would rather get all the outs on one pitch at bats over striking people out
He said "Ryan was not a great pitcher because he never gave in. He could be behind 2-0 to the #8 hitter in the lineup and he would still be throwing the ball as hard as he can to strike out the batter instead of letting them put the ball in play. He had the mentality of a rookie pitcher for his entire career.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:22 pm to CelticDog
quote:
Pedro's 98-99 seasons were absolutely insane when you consider the era.
Was that the year he started the all-star game and struck out the first six batters he faced?
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:24 pm to ClientNumber9
he was worth 3.9 WAR a year during his career
compared to other pitchers mentioned in this thread
randy johnson - 5.2 WAR
pedro martinez - 4.9 WAR
roger clemens - 5.8 WAR
greg maddux - 5.3 WAR
the closest he comes is being a full win behind pedro
compared to other pitchers mentioned in this thread
randy johnson - 5.2 WAR
pedro martinez - 4.9 WAR
roger clemens - 5.8 WAR
greg maddux - 5.3 WAR
the closest he comes is being a full win behind pedro
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:31 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Today his fastball wouldnt be something as special as it was back then.
Tough to say.
Radar guns have come a long way since he played. Back then there wasn't even uniformity on the types of guns they used and some were literally called fast guns and slow guns.
I've seen some estimates that would have him around 105 if they clocked his pitched w/the current tech.
Also, at the end of the day, the speed of the pitch is far less important than the movement the pitcher can put on it.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:55 pm to Dr RC
quote:
've seen some estimates that would have him around 105 if they clocked his pitched w/the current tech.
I dont know. I dont believe that. Watching Nolan's fastball doenst look like he is throwing as hard as Chapman is throwing today. My point was that today more guys are throwing 98-99 mph fast ball. But yeah youre probably right about the gun technology
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:29 pm to Baloo
quote:
Ironically, being banned from the Hall is the best thing that ever happened to Rose. He's Rod Carew with a better storyline. Only, ya know, Carew is a lot better.
If Rose just doesn't gamble, he goes into the Hall on the first ballot most like like and is know as the hit king, a hall of famer as "Charlie Hustle" to some old school guys and that's about it.
It's been a while since i looked at an all-time pitchers but i didn't have Ryan in the top 25, but in just the last 25 years off the top of my head, Maddux, Clemens, Pedro and Johnson are all well ahead
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:41 pm to H-Town Tiger
Hell, I'd put Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Mussina ahead of Ryan. Let's put it like this, Bert Blyleven is 5th all-time in strikeouts, and he barely made the Hall of Fame. FIFTH! And Blyleven was actually better than Ryan at preventing runs (because he didn't walk so many hitters).
Ryan is one of the most entertaining pitchers ever. But Blyleven is a better comp for him than Clemens. Randy Johnson is the pitcher we think Nolan Ryan is.
Ryan is one of the most entertaining pitchers ever. But Blyleven is a better comp for him than Clemens. Randy Johnson is the pitcher we think Nolan Ryan is.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:06 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
pitcher's W/L record is honestly the WORST possible stat to measure them by
What about his WHIP and ERA?
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:29 pm to ULSU
What Ryan did past 40 years old is pretty remarkable. People always want to look at his career as a whole and judge it, when it reality, the guy pitched through 3 different eras with varying degrees of success.
Oh he has the most Ks or BB or no-nos. There is much more to it
Oh he has the most Ks or BB or no-nos. There is much more to it
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:30 pm to McCaigBro69
No he is not. A very good pitcher but not close to the best.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:31 pm to WestCoastAg
I've only been watching baseball since the early 80's but Greg Maddux is the best "pitcher" I've ever seen. He just flat out knew how to pitch to each batter to get the most out of his talent. His ability to outsmart batters was uncanny.
I definitely have respect for Nolan Ryan as an athlete to do what he did for so long at such a high level. I would love to see what his numbers would have been like if he would have pitched for a decent team all those years he was with the Astros and they really sucked. That was most of his "prime" years even though he was still throwing heat at 46 years old.
I definitely have respect for Nolan Ryan as an athlete to do what he did for so long at such a high level. I would love to see what his numbers would have been like if he would have pitched for a decent team all those years he was with the Astros and they really sucked. That was most of his "prime" years even though he was still throwing heat at 46 years old.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:33 pm to McCaigBro69
Nowadays yes. But back in the 70's and 80's starting pitchers had a bigger impact on w/l because they didn't have pussy managers that took them out in the 5th inning.
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