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re: Why is LeBron vs. Jordan even a debate?
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:33 pm to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:33 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:How?
Jordan doesn't lose to the last ride Spurs in 2014
I can only assume you didn't watch that series if you actually think that. The Spurs were legit unstoppable offensively, there is nothing MJ could have done to win that series, not a single thing.
quote:21 year old MJ couldn't win a playoff series but you're guaranteeing a Finals win? That's odd.
and doesn't get swept in 2007.
quote:If not for Pippen, MJ probably has zero titles, so your point is irrelevant.
And let's not forget, if not for Ray Allen and Steph Curry's ankle Lebron is undeniably 1-7 in the Finals.
1
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:34 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:He has 3 titles.
Lebron has won one of his 8 Finals appearences in what anyone could reasonably define as convincing. The other 7 are comprised of convincing defeats and furtunate breaks he had nothing to do with.
It's stupid to try and dilute them. We don't dilute any other players titles that I've ever seen, only Lebron(and KD now).
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 10:35 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:38 pm to Roger Klarvin
Wrong, LeBron is the best player ever bc he's a 6'8 250 freak of athletic nature who can play all 5 positions, shoot the 3, drive to the rim, defend the interior, defend the rim, play great help defense, rebound, distribute to teammates and defend as well as anyone in history. He was so influential he invented the position point-forward for basketball and so many try to emulate that. Not to mention he plays in the era of the best basketball players due to multiple advancements in basketball camps, strength and conditioning, film study and complex game strategy.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:39 pm to shel311
quote:
furtunate breaks he had nothing to do with.
You know you are getting far past the point of nonsense when the person who you are talking to is saying things like Lebron "had nothing to do with" his team's success. The whole thing is grasping at straws to justify a predetermined position.
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:41 pm to Peazey
quote:it's like playing with Pippen and Phil Jackson isn't a fortunate break.
You know you are getting far past the point of nonsense when the person who you are talking to is saying things like Lebron "had nothing to do with" his team's success. The whole thing is grasping at straws to justify a predetermined position
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:42 pm to shel311
quote:
If not for Pippen, MJ probably has zero titles, so your point is irrelevant.
If we give the 2014 Heat Pippen, that's 4 future HOFers on the roster. Maybe that's enough to keep Lebron from almost getting swept by an ancient Spurs squad.
Maybe
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:43 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
Wrong, LeBron is the best player ever bc he's a 6'8 250 freak of athletic nature who can play all 5 positions, shoot the 3, drive to the rim, defend the interior, defend the rim, play great help defense, rebound, distribute to teammates and defend as well as anyone in history. He was so influential he invented the position point-forward for basketball and so many try to emulate that. Not to mention he plays in the era of the best basketball players due to multiple advancements in basketball camps, strength and conditioning, film study and complex game strategy.
He's also really good at losing on the biggest stage.
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 10:44 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:46 pm to Peazey
quote:
You know you are getting far past the point of nonsense when the person who you are talking to is saying things like Lebron "had nothing to do with" his team's success. The whole thing is grasping at straws to justify a predetermined position.
Lebron had nothing to do with Ray Allen making that shot or Curry injuring his ankle. And even then, he needed a tight 7 games to win both series.
Meanwhile, all his losses were convincing in 6 games or less.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:47 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Lebron has won one of his 8 Finals appearences in what anyone could reasonably define as convincing. The other 7 are comprised of convincing defeats and furtunate breaks he had nothing to do with.
Real classic on this board that we can't have nuanced discussions on MJ's titles, but when it comes to LeBron titles, you can have as much devaluing discussion as possible.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:49 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Lebron had nothing to do with Ray Allen making that shot
It's time to rewatch that offensive possession in 2013.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:49 pm to shel311
quote:
it's like playing with Pippen and Phil Jackson isn't a fortunate break.
Lebron James has played with Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving all in their primes. How many superstar teammates does he need?
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:51 pm to Roger Klarvin
So was Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, James Harden, the Big 3 at Boston, Dirk Nowitzki, its like you act that LeBron never won 3 NBA titles. You'd have a better argument if LeBron lost every single one of his title appearances but he has 3 rings on that hand which is more than both of us can claim. He's led 2 SEPARATE FRANCHISES to NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS and 7 STRAIGHT Finals appearances, next to the 60s Celtics unprecedented.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:53 pm to c on z
quote:
Real classic on this board that we can't have nuanced discussions on MJ's titles, but when it comes to LeBron titles, you can have as much devaluing discussion as possible.
Because Jordan didn't need more than six games to win any of his Finals series, and had an average PPG differential of +7.8 in his career in the Finals.
Lebron won two of his three series in 7 games, both times with the other team blowing multiple chances to close the series, and has a career PPG differential of -9.8 PPG in the Finals.
Lebron loses a lot and gets blown out a lot in the Finals.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 10:55 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
So was Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, James Harden, the Big 3 at Boston, Dirk Nowitzki
And nobody is arguing any of those players are better than Michael Jordan.
Glad we agree
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 11:02 pm to Roger Klarvin
Dude again with the title amount, just crown Kareem or Bill as the GOAT because they've won 6+ and Kareem won 6 league MVPs and is the all-time NBA leading scorer. 10 of his 20 seasons Kareem participated in the NBA Finals. 12 of Bill Russell's 13 seasons, he participated in the NBA Finals. LeBron's been to more NBA Finals than Michael Jordan ever participated in and, barring 2011, performed incredibly well in those title series, let the title amount go it's like saying Joe Montana's better than Tom Brady because he's 4-0 vs 5-2 whereas Tom Brady led his team to the Super Bowl more. We're gonna value losing in conference playoffs more than advancing to the Finals, makes zero logical sense. Also, MJ didn't play the bulk of his career during the salary cap/free agency era so he maintained that core Bulls team longer and dynasties were easier to achieve.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 11:04 pm to ThePTExperience1969
All that and 6 titles >>>>>>> 3 titles.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 11:11 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
Dude again with the title amount, just crown Kareem or Bill as the GOAT because they've won 6+ and Kareem won 6 league MVPs and is the all-time NBA leading scorer. 10 of his 20 seasons Kareem participated in the NBA Finals. 12 of Bill Russell's 13 seasons, he participated in the NBA Finals. LeBron's been to more NBA Finals than Michael Jordan ever participated in and, barring 2011, performed incredibly well in those title series, let the title amount go it's like saying Joe Montana's better than Tom Brady because he's 4-0 vs 5-2 whereas Tom Brady led his team to the Super Bowl more. We're gonna value losing in conference playoffs more than advancing to the Finals, makes zero logical sense. Also, MJ didn't play the bulk of his career during the salary cap/free agency era so he maintained that core Bulls team longer and dynasties were easier to achieve.
Nobody is comparing Michael Jordan to Bill Russell. They're comparing him to Lebron James.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 11:13 pm to mattz1122
LeBron's been to 8 Finals in 14 seasons as a pro with 2 separate franchises, coaches and team compositions, Michaels only attended 6 in a 15 year career so that means for 9 seasons, MJ was busy either losing in the East playoffs or not making the playoffs at all(see Wizards). LeBron has defeated the greatest regular season team of all-time while also overcoming a 3-1 deficit in that series, he's the only player to average a triple-double in the Finals, he's the only player in the 71 year history of the NBA to record 28,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 7,000 assists, he's the only player to average 27-7-7 for a career, he holds almost every playoff record in the 71 year history of the NBA and won 3 rings. Also, every team LeBron leaves, they become irrelevant losers whereas when MJ left the Bulls a month before the 1994 season they still won 55 games with Scottie leading the team. Case closed.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 11:17 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
LeBron's been to 8 Finals in 14 seasons as a pro with 2 separate franchises, coaches and team compositions, Michaels only attended 6 in a 15 year career so that means for 9 seasons, MJ was busy either losing in the East playoffs or not making the playoffs at all(see Wizards). LeBron has defeated the greatest regular season team of all-time while also overcoming a 3-1 deficit in that series, he's the only player to average a triple-double in the Finals, he's the only player in the 71 year history of the NBA to record 28,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 7,000 assists, he's the only player to average 27-7-7 for a career, he holds almost every playoff record in the 71 year history of the NBA and won 3 rings. Also, every team LeBron leaves, they become irrelevant losers whereas when MJ left the Bulls a month before the 1994 season they still won 55 games with Scottie leading the team. Case closed.
That's an awful lot of words to say Lebron has lost nearly as many Finals series as Jordan won.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 11:23 pm to Roger Klarvin
Ring amount is yalls only argument but it's a foolhardy one bc you have to advance to all those Finals to lose those Finals and no one except the great Bill Russell surpassed LeBron James at leading his team to the world championship series. 9 of his 15 years, MJ didn't advance to the Finals, he'd lose in the East playoffs or not even qualify. He was just a scoring stat guy until he won title 1 at age 28.
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