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Why aren't knuckleballers used as reliever?

Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:24 pm
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
31897 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:24 pm
It seems like having a knuckleballer go out there for an inning after they have been seeing regular pitching all day would be perfect.

Plus the team wouldn't be practicing for the knuckleball bc they don't know if they'll see it
Posted by AjaxFury
In & out of The Matrix
Member since Sep 2014
9928 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:25 pm to
Unless long man, enter with men on base & risk of wild pitch too high plus base running advantage.
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
31897 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:28 pm to
Yea I see why you wouldn't do it in the middle of an inning.

Imagine having a knuckleballer as the set up man then a guy throwing 95+ as your closer
Posted by TT9
Global warming
Member since Sep 2008
82952 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:28 pm to
Eddie Fisher, Charlie Hough, Hoyt Wilhelm, Phil Niekro, Tim Wakefield.
Posted by bbrownso
Member since Mar 2008
8985 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:45 pm to
quote:

Why aren't knuckleballers used as reliever?

#1 - I don't remember there being a lot of knuckleball pitchers
#2 - they typically required their own catcher who is accustomed to catching knuckleballs; Wakefield's catchers used something like a softball mitt or a first baseman's glove.
#3 - the flutter of the knuckleball depends on a variety of factors - this can lead to bad days

See R.A. Dickey - Cy Young award winner in 2012; has gone 39-52 since then.
This post was edited on 4/8/17 at 6:47 pm
Posted by brgfather129
Los Angeles, CA
Member since Jul 2009
17097 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 6:48 pm to
quote:

Imagine having a knuckleballer as the set up man then a guy throwing 95+ as your closer




You didn't really think this through, did you?
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
31897 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 7:11 pm to
I mean I thought a little bit, makes sense to me

He's a reliever so you don't have to use him if it's bad weather, wrong catcher, etc....
Posted by lake2280
Public intellectual
Member since Nov 2012
4288 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 7:30 pm to
It would work if the setup man let the other team bat around, might not need the closer then though.
Posted by brgfather129
Los Angeles, CA
Member since Jul 2009
17097 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 7:39 pm to
quote:

mean I thought a little bit, makes sense to me


If the "setup man" and "closer" do their respective jobs, will they be facing the same hitters?
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35451 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 8:11 pm to
quote:

It seems like having a knuckleballer go out there for an inning after they have been seeing regular pitching all day would be perfect.


Aaron Boone concurs with your assessment.
Posted by Snoopy04
Republic of Texas
Member since Aug 2015
3015 posts
Posted on 4/8/17 at 8:46 pm to
Unpredictable strike percentage. I'd never want to depend on a pitch that has no consistency of placement during a 1 run ball game.
Posted by BackWoodsTiger
Member since Sep 2008
6145 posts
Posted on 4/9/17 at 8:20 am to
quote:

#3 - the flutter of the knuckleball depends on a variety of factors - this can lead to bad days
This. I used it almost exclusively with great effect in my high school days. But I had to be so careful with something as small as trimming my nails because if I took too much off and couldn't dig in, it was way too hit and miss. Anybody that's ever faced a knuckleballer that's off knows what I mean. A knuckleball that doesn't dance is better than BP. Also, our catcher was my lifelong best friend and had caught for me coming up. Even he didn't know what the ball was fixing to do, he just was accustomed to breaking down the proper way when he noticed the ball doing certain things. Our senior year, he got trucked at home plate in a vicious way and missed 2-3 games from a concussion. Well, I couldn't pitch at all because our coach didn't have anybody he trusted to handle a ball that the bottom may fall out of at any point.
Posted by Overbrook
Member since May 2013
6083 posts
Posted on 4/9/17 at 8:32 am to
Wilbur wood made 86 relief appearances and started 2 games in 1968. He then switched to starter and had nearly 50 starts in each of 1972 and 1973.
Posted by danfraz
San Antonio TX
Member since Apr 2008
24550 posts
Posted on 4/9/17 at 8:41 am to
quote:

It seems like having a knuckleballer go out there for an inning after they have been seeing regular pitching all day would be perfect.



Does it? Sending a guy out there who literally has no idea where the ball is going when he throws it is a good idea with a lead late in a game?


Maybe when you're getting blown the frick out but all I have to think about is Boone vs Wakefield Game 7 extra innings....no thank you

Posted by SeeeeK
some where
Member since Sep 2012
28026 posts
Posted on 4/9/17 at 8:50 am to


You really want a pitcher who has no clue where his pitches will go, coming in with guys on base??
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35451 posts
Posted on 4/29/17 at 7:54 pm to
Watch that great doc on Netflix on the Knuckleball...

Even Wakefield says..."the pitch is too unpredictable" - even I don't know what's going to happen..."it has a mind of its own."

You put a little too much pressure or your finger slides or one of your fingertips catches on the ball - the ball tumbles...and the ball will spin and then you are screwed...as they said in the doc..."you just served up batting practice to an MLB player if you aren't perfect on your knuckleball everytime."

And that's what happened with Boone. He got served batting practice on that one pitch.

And there's "never been more than 3-4 in the league at one time" during baseball's history. Can't really have relievers doing something almost nobody has trained themselves to do.
This post was edited on 4/29/17 at 7:56 pm
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
41160 posts
Posted on 4/29/17 at 8:00 pm to
Jim Bouton's Ball Four discusses it detail.
Great read.
Posted by BCMCubs
Colorado
Member since Nov 2011
22146 posts
Posted on 4/29/17 at 8:01 pm to
One of the best baseball books ever
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31061 posts
Posted on 4/29/17 at 8:10 pm to
A few reasons:

- the knuckleball is a low stress pitch, which is why you see a small handful of "failed" pitchers switch to the knuckleball when their velocity fades and their regular repertoire is getting crushed. With a low stress pitch, why stop at one or two innings if you are good? Get more value, be a starter.

- the pitch is too variable. As a high-leverage reliever, you can't have an uncontrollable pitch. All pitchers can get hit, but you are more likely to have a very bad day.

- do you have a catcher who handle catching knuckleballs?
Posted by Overbrook
Member since May 2013
6083 posts
Posted on 4/30/17 at 8:42 am to
I wonder why some don't use it as a secondary pitch. I guess it's because of the need for a special catcher.
Part of a different era, I guess. Breaking pitches are more in favor than sinkers. The cut fastball seems to have replaced the split-finger for many pitchers, e.g.
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