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Message
re: Tournament Baseball is a scam
Posted on 1/11/09 at 11:47 am to rmc
Posted on 1/11/09 at 11:47 am to rmc
quote:
When we played all stars, no one threw that shite either. Every now and then a side armer... but everyone just got up there threw gas and attempted (not very well) to locate.
I am 39 and they didnt even have allstars for Little League til I was 11, and only 12 year olds could be on the team
Kids are way too overworked. My daughter was anaverage player, and was placed on an "All Star" team, she begged to not do it, I was sooooo happy to call and let them know we were going to spend the rest of our summer on the lake.
Parents are absolutely out of control. It really isnt the kids, hell if I was placed on a pedastal I would be a little shite too.
Back to the premise of the thread, it is all a scam, there are not that many elite athletes in these towns. And even if they were the reason they are dominating has more to do with development than coaching. You cant differentiate good from gifted players till a much later age.
0
Posted on 1/11/09 at 11:48 am to SlowFlowPro
I can't find it, but I read an interview that Dr. Andrews did a few years ago about the increased number of arm surgery he has been doing on kids under 15. He said one mom came to him and wanted TJ for her son. Dr. Andrews began to ask how he hurt his arm and she said he didn't, but had heard that pitchers throw harder after the surgery.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 11:49 am to Rouge
i had that too rouge, but it was more of a natural screwball movement
i think it's b/c my middle finger on my right hand is slightly bent from the last knuckle on for some reason
i think it's b/c my middle finger on my right hand is slightly bent from the last knuckle on for some reason
Posted on 1/11/09 at 12:01 pm to mametoo
quote:
I know 3 13 year olds that all play for different travel teams that said their team won the national championship.
I read an article a while back, (tried to find it, but I couldn't), about some kids who are so good that they are like weekend free agents for travel teams. All they do is travel to different tourneys every weekend and play for different teams, with all expenses paid.
Insane
This post was edited on 1/11/09 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 1/11/09 at 12:03 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
Insane
horribly stupid...
I have no problem with kids playing for a competitive/elite team in the summer but it needs to be limited to a couple of months and not this year round nonsense
also, I've heard quite a few stories like that about parents wanting TJ for their kids
Posted on 1/11/09 at 12:13 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
horribly stupid...
pathetic is what it is. One of the kids they were talking about in the article, lived in Florida, but played for travel teams based out of states like Indiana, Texas, Arizona, & California
Posted on 1/11/09 at 12:30 pm to SPEEDY
Well, I'm going to say something nice about travel ball since everyone's killing it.
I played on a "travel team" of sorts (we played Rough Cut in Baton Rouge, but probably played 90 games total from April to July). Our coach was great...son played for LSU. We didn't have to pay out of the arse, raised most of the money ourselves, and got to play a ton of baseball against really good teams. We won USSSA Majors as 14 yr olds, NABF as 13 yr olds, but I promise if we hadn't won those tournaments it would have still been one of the best experiences of my life.
Two years with that team were two of the funnest of my life. We worked hard, but it was fun. We just loved playing baseball, and we got to travel all across the country and spend our summers with our best friends. I got a lot out of it...probably would have never played college basketball if I hadn't learned all that I learned from it.
I know people take it overboard...but that's going to happen with anything. FWIW, every kid on that team had a D1 scholarship offer in some sport (6 or 7 baseball, a couple football, me basketball). And there were no chronic arm injuries from throwing curves (probably never threw one until 13 yrs old)
I played on a "travel team" of sorts (we played Rough Cut in Baton Rouge, but probably played 90 games total from April to July). Our coach was great...son played for LSU. We didn't have to pay out of the arse, raised most of the money ourselves, and got to play a ton of baseball against really good teams. We won USSSA Majors as 14 yr olds, NABF as 13 yr olds, but I promise if we hadn't won those tournaments it would have still been one of the best experiences of my life.
Two years with that team were two of the funnest of my life. We worked hard, but it was fun. We just loved playing baseball, and we got to travel all across the country and spend our summers with our best friends. I got a lot out of it...probably would have never played college basketball if I hadn't learned all that I learned from it.
I know people take it overboard...but that's going to happen with anything. FWIW, every kid on that team had a D1 scholarship offer in some sport (6 or 7 baseball, a couple football, me basketball). And there were no chronic arm injuries from throwing curves (probably never threw one until 13 yrs old)
Posted on 1/11/09 at 1:14 pm to Stewie Griffin
My son played travel ball from 10-13. He played on a team from Central Louisiana that was very competitive. Had a great time, the team got along great and the kids had a wonderful experience. Played great baseball, won many tournaments, and were competitive with the best teams in USSSA, got to compete in two World Series, one in Houston and one in Los Angeles.
There are down sides, the cost, every weekend playing somewhere, and the kids taking it too seriously, but overall it was a great experience for my son. My wife and I loved it, and the baseball he was exposed to was far superior to what he would have encountered in "league" ball.
To each his own, travel ball has its negatives, and there are certainly scrupulous coaches and parents who are scavenging other teams for top players and actually "recruiting" some kids off of other teams. Deplorable, but it was also good life lesson for the kids, even though they were a little young to try to figure out why their good friend, who also happened to be the best player on the team was going to go play for another team, one of our competitors in Lafayette. There is no telling what was promised to that kids mom(she was a single parent) to get that kid to play in Lafayette. It never bothered me, but was confusing to the kids.
Overall, travel ball has its ups and downs, more good than bad, imv. The biggest loser in the development of travel ball is the loss of the best players and parents to travel ball from "league" ball. The level of "league" ball has gone down significantly in the last 10 years.
There are down sides, the cost, every weekend playing somewhere, and the kids taking it too seriously, but overall it was a great experience for my son. My wife and I loved it, and the baseball he was exposed to was far superior to what he would have encountered in "league" ball.
To each his own, travel ball has its negatives, and there are certainly scrupulous coaches and parents who are scavenging other teams for top players and actually "recruiting" some kids off of other teams. Deplorable, but it was also good life lesson for the kids, even though they were a little young to try to figure out why their good friend, who also happened to be the best player on the team was going to go play for another team, one of our competitors in Lafayette. There is no telling what was promised to that kids mom(she was a single parent) to get that kid to play in Lafayette. It never bothered me, but was confusing to the kids.
Overall, travel ball has its ups and downs, more good than bad, imv. The biggest loser in the development of travel ball is the loss of the best players and parents to travel ball from "league" ball. The level of "league" ball has gone down significantly in the last 10 years.
This post was edited on 1/11/09 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 1/11/09 at 1:17 pm to natiger
I guess the key is my parents wouldn't let me play one sport year round. If I was going to play, I either had to play multiple sports throughout the year, or take a few months-break from the one sport I wanted to play.
I ended up playing just about every sport around.
I ended up playing just about every sport around.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 1:17 pm to natiger
quote:
The biggest loser in the development of travel ball is the loss of the best players and parents to travel ball from "league" ball. The level of "league" ball has gone down significantly in the last 10 years.
and if you assholes hadn't bought into the "tournament team" hype, league ball wouldn't have gone down
Posted on 1/11/09 at 1:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
Thanks to those of you who are showing an interest in my team. I really appreciate your support.
I coach 11 year olds, and there is room for one more player on my roster. What I really need is a pitcher. I could also use an assistant coach who knows pitching pretty well. I'm the head coach, and that's the one position I don't know as well as the others.
If you would like to learn more about my team and its recruiting process visit www.batonrougepirates.com.
Spread the word if you think there's a player out there who would be a good fit for us.
Thanks!
I coach 11 year olds, and there is room for one more player on my roster. What I really need is a pitcher. I could also use an assistant coach who knows pitching pretty well. I'm the head coach, and that's the one position I don't know as well as the others.
If you would like to learn more about my team and its recruiting process visit www.batonrougepirates.com.
Spread the word if you think there's a player out there who would be a good fit for us.
Thanks!
Posted on 1/11/09 at 2:24 pm to SpqrTiger
Travel ball certainly has it's negatives and positives. I think if a player is serious about playing baseball at a young age, it is a great thing. I never played travel ball but played little league and fall ball and after little league was playing pretty much year round in fall, winter, spring, and summer leagues which helped get me ready for high school. My brother who was two years younger than myself played on a travel ball team that played a shitload of games each year. They went to SoCal for weekend tournaments over 10 times a year, played a yearly tournament in Farmington, NM, Albequerque, Vegas and then a ton more in the Phoenix area and sometimes Tucson.
My brother learned to hate it. He was the starting 2nd basemen and had some good friends on the team but he never got to relax on a 3 day weekend. They were always winning as well. He played with kids who are playing in college and professionally right now. Tim Alderson (Giants '07 first rounder), Kevin Rhoderick (Oregon St), Raul Torres (ASU), Chris Davis (Cal St Fullerton), and Jason Jarvis (former ASU closer) among a few others I'm sure. The coach would sometimes fly kids in from California to play as well which was didn't make people on the team happy.
I think curveball's at a young age are fine if they are thrown mechanically correct. Most kids throw slurve's it seems which strains the arm more than a kid who can drop a 12-6 breaking ball. I played little league with Ike Davis who was the 2008 New York Mets first round draft pick and his dad Ron, a former Major Leaguer, had no problems with a 11 or 12 year old throwing a curve ball and straightened out our mechanics. He also usually only pitched the pitchers 3 innings a game so our best 3 or 4 pitchers could be used multiple times per week in combination and always be fresh.
When All Stars came, both my 11 and 12 year old years, we had 3 ace pitchers. We fell short in state my 11 year old year but won state my 12 year old year and went to San Bernadino Cali but didn't get anywhere close to the Championship to go to Williamsport. Darwin Barney (starting SS on both of Oregon State's NC teams) played on the Oregon team and Matt Tuiasosopo (Seattle 1st rounder in '04) was on Washington and he was like 6'2" as a 12 year old. Little League was a blast for me, and we dominated.
My brother learned to hate it. He was the starting 2nd basemen and had some good friends on the team but he never got to relax on a 3 day weekend. They were always winning as well. He played with kids who are playing in college and professionally right now. Tim Alderson (Giants '07 first rounder), Kevin Rhoderick (Oregon St), Raul Torres (ASU), Chris Davis (Cal St Fullerton), and Jason Jarvis (former ASU closer) among a few others I'm sure. The coach would sometimes fly kids in from California to play as well which was didn't make people on the team happy.
I think curveball's at a young age are fine if they are thrown mechanically correct. Most kids throw slurve's it seems which strains the arm more than a kid who can drop a 12-6 breaking ball. I played little league with Ike Davis who was the 2008 New York Mets first round draft pick and his dad Ron, a former Major Leaguer, had no problems with a 11 or 12 year old throwing a curve ball and straightened out our mechanics. He also usually only pitched the pitchers 3 innings a game so our best 3 or 4 pitchers could be used multiple times per week in combination and always be fresh.
When All Stars came, both my 11 and 12 year old years, we had 3 ace pitchers. We fell short in state my 11 year old year but won state my 12 year old year and went to San Bernadino Cali but didn't get anywhere close to the Championship to go to Williamsport. Darwin Barney (starting SS on both of Oregon State's NC teams) played on the Oregon team and Matt Tuiasosopo (Seattle 1st rounder in '04) was on Washington and he was like 6'2" as a 12 year old. Little League was a blast for me, and we dominated.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 2:29 pm to bags03
dude
you can throw a curve perfectly
the human arm is not meant to perform that motion, and it's a bad idea for a developing arm to do so
you can throw a curve perfectly
the human arm is not meant to perform that motion, and it's a bad idea for a developing arm to do so
Posted on 1/11/09 at 2:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the human arm is not meant to perform that motion, and it's a bad idea for a developing arm to do so
Throwing anything overhand isn't natural. I just say there is no problem if pitch counts are limited and mechanics are sound. The kids who tore up little league based off strength and had shitty mechanics almost always failed when the jumped up to the bigger field. By high school the kids who have always had the correct mechanics but maybe weren't as strong at a young age always pass the kids with shitty mechanics up.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 2:42 pm to SpqrTiger
Hold on...how are you different? You have a U-trip team that has their own tryouts as well as guaranteeing spots for 4 years. You sound like a travel team that doesn't travel. Just because you play in a league doesn't mean you are a league team. Every league I've seen had mass tryouts and a draft with teams keeping the older kids from the year before. For example, in 11-12 you keep the 11 year olds from the year before that are now 12 and add 11 year olds for your team. Maybe I read your website wrong, but it sounds like you have your own personal tryouts and other teams don't get a chance for your kids. That's a travel team that plays league ball.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 8:35 pm to JJ27
JJ,
I've played BREC, CYO and USSSA. In none of those leagues have I had the choice or the opportunity to draft players via mass callout. I would LOVE to have that opportunity, because it would place me on a level playing field with all the other teams we play against. I have always had to recruit my own players, and my team is far from elitist in any way.
We are a league team because league ball is all we play... and we follow the rules of our league. None of the teams in our league are assigned players or allowed to draft from a central pool. I wish it were that easy, because I have to scratch and dig like hell to find new players.
I tell the kids on my team that their spot is guaranteed until age 14, because that's as long as I intend to coach, and every kid on my team can stay on my team until then, if they choose to. I WILL NOT CUT THEM.
In the years that I have coached, I have never turned away a single kid who has ever approached my team to try out. They've all been invited to join the team. All they have to do is demonstrate a will to play baseball, and minimum skills. I will teach the rest. Over the years, I have provided opportunity for some kids who would NEVER have made it on another team. I have coached kids who were handicapped, I have coached kids who could not afford to pay a league fee (I paid it for them), and I coached kids who were obese or otherwise physically challenged.
Other teams DO get a chance to get my kids to play for them. In fact, I can't get them to STOP recruiting kids off my team. All of my players are free to go and play for anyone they want, any time they want. I have no protection when it comes to keeping players on my team. All I can do is a good job as a coach and hope they stay.
Now, maybe the USSSA label is throwing you as far as the impression my team makes on you blind. But my team signs up through USSSA because it's required by our league, and that's how I insure my team against liability.
Now, make no mistake, our competition in our league is TOUGH. And I don't intend to just roll over for them. I want to give them a fight. But I'm being 100% honest with you when I say that yes, our team IS different from many others.
How? For one thing, I teach my kids. I develop them into skilled, knowledgeable players. I don't just try to collect the best players I can scrounge together and throw out on a field. And, we don't care about winning. Seriously. I don't just say that. All we're concerned about is having fun... and being COMPETITIVE before being some sort of all-world little league team.
Believe me, you've got the wrong guy if you think I have an "elite" baseball team disguised as something else. My team's just trying to survive and enjoy what little time we have to play ball.
When my kid and his teammates turn 14, I'm going to start all over again with an 8 year old team, then take them to age 14. And I'll do it again and again. Because I think we DO have something different to offer kids in this town.
By the way, I'm not angry that you're skeptical about my team. I just want you to know that our heart really is in the right place. I actually enjoy spreading the word about what we're trying to do.
I've played BREC, CYO and USSSA. In none of those leagues have I had the choice or the opportunity to draft players via mass callout. I would LOVE to have that opportunity, because it would place me on a level playing field with all the other teams we play against. I have always had to recruit my own players, and my team is far from elitist in any way.
We are a league team because league ball is all we play... and we follow the rules of our league. None of the teams in our league are assigned players or allowed to draft from a central pool. I wish it were that easy, because I have to scratch and dig like hell to find new players.
I tell the kids on my team that their spot is guaranteed until age 14, because that's as long as I intend to coach, and every kid on my team can stay on my team until then, if they choose to. I WILL NOT CUT THEM.
In the years that I have coached, I have never turned away a single kid who has ever approached my team to try out. They've all been invited to join the team. All they have to do is demonstrate a will to play baseball, and minimum skills. I will teach the rest. Over the years, I have provided opportunity for some kids who would NEVER have made it on another team. I have coached kids who were handicapped, I have coached kids who could not afford to pay a league fee (I paid it for them), and I coached kids who were obese or otherwise physically challenged.
Other teams DO get a chance to get my kids to play for them. In fact, I can't get them to STOP recruiting kids off my team. All of my players are free to go and play for anyone they want, any time they want. I have no protection when it comes to keeping players on my team. All I can do is a good job as a coach and hope they stay.
Now, maybe the USSSA label is throwing you as far as the impression my team makes on you blind. But my team signs up through USSSA because it's required by our league, and that's how I insure my team against liability.
Now, make no mistake, our competition in our league is TOUGH. And I don't intend to just roll over for them. I want to give them a fight. But I'm being 100% honest with you when I say that yes, our team IS different from many others.
How? For one thing, I teach my kids. I develop them into skilled, knowledgeable players. I don't just try to collect the best players I can scrounge together and throw out on a field. And, we don't care about winning. Seriously. I don't just say that. All we're concerned about is having fun... and being COMPETITIVE before being some sort of all-world little league team.
Believe me, you've got the wrong guy if you think I have an "elite" baseball team disguised as something else. My team's just trying to survive and enjoy what little time we have to play ball.
When my kid and his teammates turn 14, I'm going to start all over again with an 8 year old team, then take them to age 14. And I'll do it again and again. Because I think we DO have something different to offer kids in this town.
By the way, I'm not angry that you're skeptical about my team. I just want you to know that our heart really is in the right place. I actually enjoy spreading the word about what we're trying to do.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 9:24 pm to SpqrTiger
SpqrTiger,
If my son was a year younger I would send him to play for you. Teaching the game and not win or else is the way to go. Keep up the good work.
If my son was a year younger I would send him to play for you. Teaching the game and not win or else is the way to go. Keep up the good work.
Posted on 1/11/09 at 9:52 pm to SpqrTiger
Was your team the 11 year old pirates at Cypress Mounds this past spring?
Posted on 1/11/09 at 10:06 pm to mametoo
I am pretty sure I have more experience,or at least as much, with youth baseball as any poster on this board and IMO travel ball is great for kids IF they get the proper coaching. Its definitely not something that is needed for a kid to be successful but proper coaching at a young age can make all the difference for these kids. It can be very expensive and isnt for everybody but if a parent has the means to get their kid on a great team I would recommend it. One thing to remember is that baseball needs to be FUN at that age and parents need to be very careful their kids dont get burned out. Just my two cents....
This post was edited on 1/11/09 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 1/11/09 at 10:10 pm to lsu480
quote:
I am pretty sure I have more experience,or at least as much, with youth baseball as any poster on this board
I thought another poster was a MLB pitcher. Are you also a MLB player or was that just for youth baseball?
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