re: Tom Brady - Five Rings

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He really hasn't, that's just part of the Brady mythology

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He definitely has, see Wes Welker.

But as you said, so has every other great QB, so that's a wash.

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But why? Wes Welker is a 2x Fist team all pro

2x team second team all pro

He was 2x all big 12 in college

Why did Brady "make him?"

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See his 1st 3 seasons then his 1st season with NE?

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How about Tom Bradys first three seasons?

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So Welker with 1 career TD in 3 seasons made Brady?

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I said he made Brady?

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Well what are you saying with Brady's 1st 3 seasons? How's that relevant to when Welker came over to NE and all of a sudden his numbers went through the roof?

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He definitely has, see Wes Welker.

But as you said, so has every other great QB, so that's a wash.

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I should have been more clear, but i meant he hasn't better than all other QB's.

On Welker, this last year in Miami he had 67 catches for 687, so he was "emerging". Maybe he didn't do better because he had a horrible coach? (haha) Anyway, I don't think it is unusual for a an UDFA to not do too much his first year or 2. Clearly he would not have put up the type of numbers he did in NE had he stayed with Miami.

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On Welker, this last year in Miami he had 67 catches for 687

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With Joey Harrington as a QB.....

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Outside of Brady's 2 MVP years Manning had more yards more TDs and higher QB rating almost every year they both played

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And yet Brady has a higher career QB rating.

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5 MVPs > 5 rings

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MVP and All-Pro awards are doled out by the media and are therefore subjective. Generally the award goes to the player on a playoff team who put up the best stats in the regular season. It's no different from the Heisman Trophy going to the best player on one of the best teams.

Drew Brees is probably a better pure passer than both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and will probably set the record for career passing yards. Want to know how many MVP awards he has? Zero.

That's why stats and rings are the best judge of a QB. Post-season awards mean nothing because of how subjective they are. There is always debate as to whether or not a player deserved to be the MVP. There is never any doubt about who wears the ring.

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So it looks to me, just based on W-L record, that Peyton Manning's teams were just as good as Tom Brady's. As has been said many times throughout his long career, no one has ever done less with more than Peyton Manning.

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Or, considering his average scoring defense rank of 16, and Tom Brady with an average scoring defense rank of 7, Manning did the same with less

You are starting to act like Manning didn't have "rings."

Manning took four separate coaches to the super bowl. Only player ever to do that

Manning won a super bowl with two separate organizations. Only qb to ever do that

So Manning has quite the accomplishments as well. You keep ignoring/forgetting that

Only brain dead idiots argue against Brady now, stop wasting your time.