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Message
Still amazes me how FSU can keep the Noles but UND can't keep the Sioux
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:19 pm
LINK
Article about the fight over new nickname.
Here is the first official UND response back in'05. Probably the best letter written to NCAA about this. Brand was a weasel, IMO. It is from a Baylor website, cut and pasted by a LSU fan.
Kupchella letter to NCAA
I understand some of the other side's arguments, Orangemen, Redskins, Indians, may somehow, someway be offensive. But my issue is why do we punish certain schools but let others slide.
I get the money aspect also.
Article about the fight over new nickname.
Here is the first official UND response back in'05. Probably the best letter written to NCAA about this. Brand was a weasel, IMO. It is from a Baylor website, cut and pasted by a LSU fan.
Kupchella letter to NCAA
I understand some of the other side's arguments, Orangemen, Redskins, Indians, may somehow, someway be offensive. But my issue is why do we punish certain schools but let others slide.
I get the money aspect also.
This post was edited on 9/17/15 at 2:20 pm
7
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:21 pm to sms151t
I was in ND a few weeks ago. They still refer to them as the Fighting Sioux.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:22 pm to sms151t
I don't know about UND, but I know FSU works with the Seminole tribe regarding their mascot and how it is presented. It doesn't come off as co-option, but collaboration. The Seminoles are consulted on how they are portrayed.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:24 pm to sms151t
These are always strange. Thought Marquette Warriors was fine, but they changed. Eastern Michigan got rid of Hurons, but Central remains Chippewas (I see on their wiki that the tribe backed them). 
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:25 pm to Baloo
Offending tribes isn't the problem
Offending white people that feel guilty for the troubles and want a cause to beat their chest over for is the problem
Offending white people that feel guilty for the troubles and want a cause to beat their chest over for is the problem
This post was edited on 9/17/15 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:26 pm to Baloo
UND has two tribes it has to deal with. One has said yes the other has said no, it is a blackmail situation.
UND is not the Fightin' Sioux anymore, not on the website or by the school. They stopped it a year or so ago.
UND is not the Fightin' Sioux anymore, not on the website or by the school. They stopped it a year or so ago.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:28 pm to sms151t
IIRC it was local politicians who mandated that they officially end the Sioux name and Indian head logo. I think had that not happened they could have kept it
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:29 pm to sms151t
I believe the Seminole Tribe gave their permission and support, and it seems FSU has always honore their relationship.
The Black Unconquered jerseys are still one of the best I've ever seen.
It's a shame Ponder fricked that game up
The Black Unconquered jerseys are still one of the best I've ever seen.
It's a shame Ponder fricked that game up
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:29 pm to sms151t
UND was the school that had that crazy rich casino guy who poured a ton of money into their facilities with the caveat they couldn't change the name before he died.
Boy that must have been a cluster.
That same crazy guy ran the Imperial Palace. When he built the property in Biloxi, he added two floors without clearance from the city, which is a big deal considering the air force base. City couldn't do anything about it though.
Also reminds me that the casinos used to have lights shooting into the sky but they kept accidentally blinding pilots so they had to stop.
Boy that must have been a cluster.
That same crazy guy ran the Imperial Palace. When he built the property in Biloxi, he added two floors without clearance from the city, which is a big deal considering the air force base. City couldn't do anything about it though.
Also reminds me that the casinos used to have lights shooting into the sky but they kept accidentally blinding pilots so they had to stop.
This post was edited on 9/17/15 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:33 pm to LL012697
It was the NCAA who started it in early 2000's. They took away the several tournaments that UND was going to host. Which forced the politicians hand. Myles Brand had his weasel hands all in this.
The time line started with the South Carolina thing, which was never enforced either.
If you read what they said the NCAA would never do in South Carolina, but never enforced it. It makes you think why are they going after UND?
Again, my issue is not with UND, the tribes, the students, or citizens. It is with the NCAA and their enforcement and leveraging of people.
ETA:
Sorry if on soapbox, was reading article about UND NDSU game this weekend and came across this article.
The time line started with the South Carolina thing, which was never enforced either.
If you read what they said the NCAA would never do in South Carolina, but never enforced it. It makes you think why are they going after UND?
Again, my issue is not with UND, the tribes, the students, or citizens. It is with the NCAA and their enforcement and leveraging of people.
ETA:
Sorry if on soapbox, was reading article about UND NDSU game this weekend and came across this article.
This post was edited on 9/17/15 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:35 pm to sms151t
How is using the actual name of the tribe offensive? I just don't understand that and I never will.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:37 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Offending tribes isn't the problem
Offending white people that feel guilty for the troubles and want a cause to beat their chest over for is the problem
Spot on
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:39 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
How is using the actual name of the tribe offensive? I just don't understand that and I never will.
yeah I can see "Redskins" and the Cleveland Indian's old logo as pejorative but just a tribe name is neutral at worst.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:44 pm to SabiDojo
I don't see the problem as long as the name, mascot and logo make reference to history and are not a goofy caricature, sterotype and obviously not a pejorative term(redskin)
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:46 pm to sms151t
quote:The NCAA had a 15-year ban on pre-selected tournaments in South Carolina, meaning conference tournaments and qualifier home-site tournament events could be held in SC. The ban was lifted this summer.
The time line started with the South Carolina thing, which was never enforced either.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:49 pm to sms151t
Don't the Seminoles accept and endorse FSU and even lend an actual member to ride the horse onto the field?
Or am I making that up?
Or am I making that up?
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:49 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
I don't see the problem as long as the name, mascot and logo make reference to history and are not a goofy caricature, sterotype and obviously not a pejorative term(redskin)
Playing devil's advocate here:
So seeing a guy ride on a horse, throwing a spear that has a flame on it and having a cartoon character with a feather that says noles in it is not offensive?
Again, I do not have issue with the names at all. It just seems to be selective and spiteful enforcement. As Kupchella stated in his letter, why are Vikings, Irish, Spartans etc not involved.
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:51 pm to ballscaster
FSU probably pays their tribe more. Good for them, the name and uniforms are badass (not including the new seminole figurehead taking it up the rear).
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:54 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
I don't see the problem as long as the name, mascot and logo make reference to history and are not a goofy caricature, sterotype and obviously not a pejorative term(redskin)
Most mascots are caricature looking things. Nobody considers Oklahoma States "Pistol Pete" a racist depiction of a Cowboy. Same with Notre Dames Irishman
This post was edited on 9/17/15 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 9/17/15 at 2:54 pm to sms151t
quote:
So seeing a guy ride on a horse, throwing a spear that has a flame on it
Absolutely not. The Seminoles themselves have said so.
quote:
having a cartoon character with a feather
Its hardly a "cartoonish" character. Its more like a pretty realistic drawing.
This post was edited on 9/17/15 at 2:55 pm
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