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Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:23 pm to SeeeeK
Poor Cardinals. The past two days must have been rough
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:26 pm to CRDNLSCHMCPSN11
quote:
I would have preferred Oquendo. But he never managed before either.
I mean at least he had been on a big league staff for about 10 years under one of the winningest managers of all time.
Mike Matheny was coming off his couch from retirement.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:27 pm to SeeeeK
I like Francona, but his resume isn't squeaky clean either. He just blew a 3-1 lead in the World Series. And he lost control of his 2011 Red Sox, and completely choked away a playoff spot.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:33 pm to TheXman
I thought he was a roving instructor? I get your point though.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:34 pm to TheXman
quote:
I'd argue that the Cardinals are set-up for the next 5-10 years better than any other team in the division
That's cute
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:41 pm to tzimme4
quote:
Poor Cardinals. The past two days must have been rough
2? i believe that is 3 or 4 walk off wins for other team since coming back from all star break. lol
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:43 pm to CRDNLSCHMCPSN11
quote:
I like Francona, but his resume isn't squeaky clean either. He just blew a 3-1 lead in the World Series. And he lost control of his 2011 Red Sox, and completely choked away a playoff spot.
He's also coaching the Cleveland Indians... not exactly a team you expect to even be there, so let's give the man his credit.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:49 pm to TennesseeFan25
I do give him credit last year. But he's been underachieving this year with a healthier roster in a weak division just like Matheny.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 2:55 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
That's cute
I'm basing it off of pitching. No one in the central can match the Cardinals depth in their entire system.
The opposite is true for hitting, so they'll have to deal from a surplus. Kind of the opposite scenario that the Cubs are in. Where you just dealt your top two prospects to garner pitching because you have all the offense you need for 5 years.
And I think I added (if not here it is) that none of that matters as long as Matheny is the manager. As long as he is running the show they will suck
This post was edited on 7/20/17 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:06 pm to TheXman
quote:
I'm basing it off of pitching. No one in the central can match the Cardinals depth in their entire system.
the pitching is decent but its not that much better. There a potential ace there and a few SP2-SP3 guys.
Brewers have a really good system, Pirates have good young pitching, and the Cubs have some guys that are electric that are not quite on the national scene yet.
It will be pretty tough for STL to pass the Cubs because of all the young talent that CHI has graduated onto their big league roster.
You start combing that STL roster and Matt Carpenter is prob your best hitter. He isnt playing a premium position. He's about to make 32. Then i start combing the Cubs regulars and im not sure there is a guy id swap Carpenter with until I get to JAson Heyward maybe, who is our 6th or 7th best guy.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:14 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
the pitching is decent but its not that much better. There a potential ace there and a few SP2-SP3 guys.
Brewers have a really good system, Pirates have good young pitching, and the Cubs have some guys that are electric that are not quite on the national scene yet.
It will be pretty tough for STL to pass the Cubs because of all the young talent that CHI has graduated onto their big league roster.
No other team in the central has young pitchers than can match a trio of healthy Michael Wacha, Alex Reyes, and Carlos Martinez. Pirates are closest with Cole, Taillon and Keller.
Throw in a couple more top 100 guys in Flahery and Weaver and the depth is not matched.
Now again, none of this matters if Matheny is the manager and they don't use this surplus to acquire a bat or two. No one is winning a pennant with Dexter Fowler and Jedd Gyroko as your 3 and 4 hitters.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:22 pm to TheXman
quote:
No other team in the central has young pitchers than can match a trio of healthy Michael Wacha, Alex Reyes, and Carlos Martinez.
are we pretending Wacha is some type of stud and that Reyes has actually proven he can pitch in the MLB?
c'mon guy
you're acting like we're talmbout the 90's Braves staff. Martinez isnt even a SP1 in most circles, just a really good 2. These guys arent good enough to vault STL over the other teams.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:28 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
you're acting like we're talmbout the 90's Braves staff. Martinez isnt even a SP1 in most circles, just a really good 2. These guys arent good enough to vault STL over the other teams.
Pitching wise? Yes they are... The Brewers have this guy Hader who looks like he might be the real deal, other than that they have Anderson and no one else.
The Reds might as well have position players pitching.
The Pirates are the closest. If you want to throw Nova in there, you can say they are neck and neck with the Cardinals. Their biggest problem is they won't have the money to resign Cole.
The Cubs have Arrieta who will be gone. Lester who is probably a 3 at this point in his career. Quintana who could be a legit 2. Hendricks who is probably a 3/4.
Martinez is a 1. Reyes has the ability to be a 1 based off what we saw last year. Wacha if he can stay healthy (which I realize is a big if) can be a 2.
You can't tell me anyone else in the division has better pitching depth lined up for the next 5 years.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:29 pm to Lester Earl
CMart 4.16 career ERA vs Chi in 21 games w/11 starts
Wacha 6.65 ERA vs Chi in 13 games w/ 11 starts
Wacha 6.65 ERA vs Chi in 13 games w/ 11 starts
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:33 pm to Lester Earl
They both have higher WARs and better ERAs than any Cub starter. What's your point? The Cardinals don't play the Cubs 162 games a year.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:33 pm to TheXman
quote:is he though? most of his numbers right now suggest hes a top 20 pitcher in baseball. which is good, obviously. especially at his contract. but is that a sure #1 guy? idk
Martinez is a 1
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:38 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
is he though? most of his numbers right now suggest hes a top 20 pitcher in baseball. which is good, obviously. especially at his contract. but is that a sure #1 guy? idk
He's not a top 10 pitcher (yet) because of inconsistency but I'd say he's definitely a #1. I'm trying to think of the teams where he definitely would not be the #1 starter on the staff and the only ones that come to mind are Dodgers, Nationals, Red Sox, Diamondbacks, Indians, and Mets.
Every other team he is their 1 or their 1A.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:39 pm to TheXman
quote:
They both have higher WARs and better ERAs than any Cub starter. What's your point? The Cardinals don't play the Cubs 162 games a year.
For 1, you're wrong.
Quintana 2.5 WAR
Martinez 2.2 WAR
Wacha 2.1 WAR
Lester 2.0 WAR
Secondly, 2.2 WAR vs 2.0 WAR, you're not looking at much difference. You're trying to call your guy a SP1 and Lester a SP3 and they've had basically the same value.
Hey im not sitting here saying the Cardinals are set up poorly in the future in the pitching department. But again, you're acting like you're throwing Glavine, Smotlz and Maddux out there and you're not even close to that. You have some decent arms but nothing that is going to overtake the Cubs future which is why i posted their splits vs the Cubs specifically. Wacha had a 5.00 ERA last year and is a bad game from being over 4.00 right now.
Posted on 7/20/17 at 3:45 pm to Lester Earl
you're right I forgot about Quintana and I used ESPN for the WAR totals, should have used fangraphs like usual. ESPN has Lester at a 0.2 WAR? How is that possible.
And to your point, I don't think the Cardinals will overtake the Cubs in the next 5 years, because the Cubs actually have a front office that is willing to be bold and not shove dildos up their arse all day.
I will stick to my original statement of the Cardinals having more pitching depth though. Probably won't matter when you have an actual retard managing and a pussy calling the shots in the front office.
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