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Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:25 am to flyAU
quote:
At a certain point you end up giving up hope about that potential and realize that maybe your expectations were not correct to begin with.
Oh I know, when Shelby was in our system he was hyped to be a high end #2 starter low end #1, then you watch him underperform for 3 years and more importantly watch his development stall and realize he's your #5 and may at some point be a 3/4 caliber pitcher. It's why the trade was considered good for both sides and even, fresh starts for 2 players that needed them. Heyward had fallen out of favor with the Braves front office, and Shelby had with the Cards.
Still hilarious to see what some people say 11 games into a 162 game season. Although that one guy was just trolling with that part of it.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:27 am to UltimateHog
You seemed to get pretty excited after 1 game. Which is more accurate, 1 or 11?
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:27 am to sicboy
Except it does, amazing defense 3 rbi, scored 3 runs. (HR takes away one) Took Shelby out of the rotation.
Unlike the Braves we just need him to be a piece, not our savior
Unlike the Braves we just need him to be a piece, not our savior
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:28 am to Mizzoufan26
$20 million piece?
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:33 am to crimsonian
They won't be able to unless he has another pedestrian season, and even then it still might be a stretch. They have a ton of money tied up in Molina, Wainwright,and Holliday. The only way that they will realistically be able to keep Heyward is if they mortgage a good chunk of the next 5-7 years on improved production from him, which I don't think they will do.
The Yankees still seem to be the best fit for him, but still the restraint they showed this off season in regards to Lester and Scherzer was surprising to say the least. Maybe they were passive this off season so they can make a big splash heading into 2016?
I will always be a Heyward fan, but I think a team will end up significantly over paying for him when he hits the market. Heyward is going to command a salary comparable to an elite level player and has yet to come close to that level in terms of actual production. The most puzzling part about Heyward is his inability to consistently hit lefties. Some years his splits are fairly consistent (2010,2013) but other years (2011,2012,2014) they are just awful. Even if he produces a solid season with a "refined approach" against lefties signing him to a huge deal is still going to be an astronomical gamble due to the inability to maintain solid production as he has shown in the past.
The Yankees still seem to be the best fit for him, but still the restraint they showed this off season in regards to Lester and Scherzer was surprising to say the least. Maybe they were passive this off season so they can make a big splash heading into 2016?
I will always be a Heyward fan, but I think a team will end up significantly over paying for him when he hits the market. Heyward is going to command a salary comparable to an elite level player and has yet to come close to that level in terms of actual production. The most puzzling part about Heyward is his inability to consistently hit lefties. Some years his splits are fairly consistent (2010,2013) but other years (2011,2012,2014) they are just awful. Even if he produces a solid season with a "refined approach" against lefties signing him to a huge deal is still going to be an astronomical gamble due to the inability to maintain solid production as he has shown in the past.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:36 am to Mizzoufan26
quote:
we just need him to be a piece, not our savior
13.3 mill for one season is a piece these days?
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:37 am to Mizzoufan26
Except we need him to be a run producer, because guess what's killed us the last 3 postseasons? There really isn't much different from last years offense besides him, and I know 11 games, but things don't look that much different. Slightly concerning.
Spin it all you want, but this team needs Heyward to become that masher. We have Jay to be that guy that provides great defense that doesn't really produce offensively.
Spin it all you want, but this team needs Heyward to become that masher. We have Jay to be that guy that provides great defense that doesn't really produce offensively.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:41 am to Cherokee Chinstrap
If the Cardinals want to keep him they easily can and will, Holliday's 17 million has 1 more year left on it, the plan is to have Heyward's contract replace it and our top 2 prospects are corner outfielders for the other spot.
And no, we don't have a lot of money tied up in Molina and Wainwright, they are both on hometown discounts underpaid for their value and production. Put down the 420 pipe.
And no, we don't have a lot of money tied up in Molina and Wainwright, they are both on hometown discounts underpaid for their value and production. Put down the 420 pipe.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 9:44 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:46 am to UltimateHog
quote:
If the Cardinals want to keep him they easily can and will
Of course.
For what price? 13-15 mill at best if he has a normal season for him.
Or are you going to pay 80 mill for a .261 hitter? And claim that him being just a piece was the plan all along.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:47 am to Tigertown in ATL
quote:
.261 hitter
I'd take that if he could supply some power.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:49 am to Tigertown in ATL
Too much season left to know that or even speculate.
That's why our GM said yesterday he aiming for mid summer to start talking with Heyward on an extension. If he's hitting .220 with little production come July, I'd expect those talks to involve lower offers and the Cards to back off like they did Pujols at a certain price point they set his value at. Also don't think he'll be hitting near .220 come that time, just an example.
That's why our GM said yesterday he aiming for mid summer to start talking with Heyward on an extension. If he's hitting .220 with little production come July, I'd expect those talks to involve lower offers and the Cards to back off like they did Pujols at a certain price point they set his value at. Also don't think he'll be hitting near .220 come that time, just an example.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 9:56 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:52 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Too much season left to know that or even speculate.
I agree to an extent. But didn't you say that 13.3 mill for a guy with his stats is acceptable? For this year I mean.
Not putting words in your mouth. We are 4 pages in and I'm not going to spend the time to make sure I get everyone sorted right.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:53 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Still hilarious to see what some people say 11 games into a 162 game season
You're doing the exact same thing, bro.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:55 am to TH03
For real.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:58 am to TH03
Not really, other than actually answering the troll OP.
Pretty much said too early about 6 times now.
Pretty much said too early about 6 times now.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 9:59 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:58 am to UltimateHog
I am not suggesting that those three are not signed to deals that are well below market value for their respective talent levels. However, the fact of the matter is that Heyward is going to command upwards of $20 million as opposed to the $8.8 that he currently makes. Where is the extra $11-12 million a year going to come from for 2016? Even if he is offered a back loaded deal there is a very strong possibility that a team like the Yankees is able to simply outbid the Cards for his services and offer more money upfront and on the back end.
As you said Holliday still has one year left and it could potentially be two years because there is a club option for 2017 that becomes fully guaranteed if he finishes top 10 in the 2016 MVP voting which is not out of the realm of possibility seeing as he finished 14th last season.
I just don't see how this situation will workout favorable for the Cards, but I wish them the best of luck because I love watching Heyward play and I don't think I could handle seeing both him and McCann in pinstripes.
As you said Holliday still has one year left and it could potentially be two years because there is a club option for 2017 that becomes fully guaranteed if he finishes top 10 in the 2016 MVP voting which is not out of the realm of possibility seeing as he finished 14th last season.
I just don't see how this situation will workout favorable for the Cards, but I wish them the best of luck because I love watching Heyward play and I don't think I could handle seeing both him and McCann in pinstripes.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 10:02 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 9:59 am to UltimateHog
YES, it's too early. BUT, what he's producing now isn't what he was brought in for. If he continues like this but still provides the defense, not a good pickup at all.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:00 am to Cherokee Chinstrap
quote:Yankees have been pretty passive the last couple of seasons.... Well outside of the Ellsbury deal... the McCann deal was decent at the time (5 years 85m) and Tanaka was on par with a lot of contracts given for a young player. Beltran deal wasn't bad either considering Yankees could DH him the issue is that he has stayed injured.
The Yankees still seem to be the best fit for him, but still the restraint they showed this off season in regards to Lester and Scherzer was surprising to say the least. Maybe they were passive this off season so they can make a big splash heading into 2016?
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:00 am to Mizzoufan26
quote:his defense is down this season
amazing defense
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