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re: Replace Lebron with MJ, would the Cavs be the favorites?
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:18 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:18 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Doesn't matter lebron lost. 3-5 in finals. Sorry that's not GOAT numbers
1
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:20 am to theunknownknight
quote:
ETA: at WS/48. If your including Bynum and Odom then you've lost. They both collapsed toward the end of the season that season. Both were pretty much done with the NBA. Actually, mentally, done. Look no further than the folllowing months.
I know you've tried to discount that 2011 sweep quite a bit, but you're not fooling anyone. Kobe, Gasol, and Odom were top 15 in total win shares for the season, and Bynum had the highest PER of the entire team in the playoffs.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:21 am to DelU249
quote:
and they lost to a mavs team that is one of the worst finals winners ever
Dallas was well on it's way to winning 60 games before Dirk and Caron went down with injuries in the middle of the season.
They swept the two time defending champs out of the playoffs, whipped a team that had Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, and then stymied the Heatles by correctly doing all they could to force LeBron into being a perimeter player.
People who act like they weren't a great team don't know what they are talking about and are blinded by Cuban's mistake of breaking the team up in order to chase Dwight.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:25 am to DelU249
quote:
and they lost to a mavs team that is one of the worst finals winners ever
Star power? Sure.
However, that team went through Portland in 6 games, swept the Lakers, beat OKC in 5, and then beat Miami in 6. Their post season run is as good as you'll find.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:28 am to Hamma1122
Only making 6 finals in 15 years playing - not GOAT numbers
That's not even counting his wizards career
I think Jordan is the best and Lebron second but reading this board you would swear Jordan won the championship every year
That's not even counting his wizards career
I think Jordan is the best and Lebron second but reading this board you would swear Jordan won the championship every year
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:31 am to Dr RC
quote:
Dallas was well on it's way to winning 60 games before Dirk and Caron went down with injuries in the middle of the season.
They swept the two time defending champs out of the playoffs, whipped a team that had Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, and then stymied the Heatles by correctly doing all they could to force LeBron into being a perimeter player.
People who act like they weren't a great team don't know what they are talking about and are blinded by Cuban's mistake of breaking the team up in order to chase Dwight.
Yep. Their final Elo rating puts them ahead of teams like the 1993 Bulls and even the 2012 Heat.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:47 am to Dr RC
they're what is known as "lightning in a bottle champions"
they're blinded by the fact that the heat were better and just blew it.
quote:
blinded by Cuban's mistake of breaking the team up in order to chase Dwight.
they're blinded by the fact that the heat were better and just blew it.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:49 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Replace Lebron with MJ, would the Cavs be the favorites?
Of course not. He's 54 years old.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:52 am to That's BS
quote:Clever!
Of course not. He's 54 years old.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:54 am to DelU249
quote:
LeBron never had to face a team like the 90s knicks or the 97 heat to get to the finals
both teams would give him all he could handle and he wouldn't have 8 finals appearances.
The 2011 Chicago Bulls were better than both the 1993 Knicks and 1997 Heat.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 11:02 am to ChiSaint
quote:
I don't exactly trust a statistic that rates Jason Kidd ahead of Magic and Clyde Drexler ahead of Shaq and Kobe.
, it is a good stat, but context is important. Jason Kidd is 10th in all-time games played, so his career total is going to be pretty stout. 
Posted on 6/2/17 at 11:23 am to Midtiger farm
quote:
Only making 6 finals in 15 years playing - not GOAT numbers
That's not even counting his wizards career
I think Jordan is the best and Lebron second but reading this board you would swear Jordan won the championship every year
he played 15 total, 13 with chicago...
but yeah, people overrate jordan a tad bit, but when it came to the finals his play stepped up a tad bit.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 11:24 am to slackster
quote:
, it is a good stat, but context is important. Jason Kidd is 10th in all-time games played, so his career total is going to be pretty stout.
It has Eddie fricking Jones ranked ahead of Allen Iverson with a similar number of games played.
I'm sorry but using this statistic as proof that Lebron is better than Jordan is pretty worthless. There is an argument to be made but just throwing this stat up there is not the way to do it.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 11:25 am to ChiSaint
quote:
I'm sorry but using this statistic as proof that Lebron is better than Jordan is pretty worthless. There is an argument to be made but just throwing this stat up there is not the way to do it.
That was the point I was trying to make. In a vacuum it is fairly useless.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 11:53 am to ChiSaint
quote:VORP is a cumulative statistics though, based on the Box Plus Minus and minutes played. Since Magic's career was diminished by his HIV, his VORP is lower than one would expect.
I don't exactly trust a statistic that rates Jason Kidd ahead of Magic and Clyde Drexler ahead of Shaq and Kobe.
VORP Best Single Seasons
VORP Season by Season Leaders
Now the best VORP seasons indicates that MJ and Lebron account for 4 of the top 5 seasons (2 each). In addition, the season by season leaders indicates that Lebron has led the league VORP for 8 straight seasons (05-06 thorough 12-13) and MJ led it for 7 straight seasons (86-87 through 92-93).
So taking the career and season VORP figures, it has a lot of validity.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 12:04 pm to ChiSaint
quote:jones was an awesome defensive player (miles ahead of Iverson), better three point shooter, better shooter period.
It has Eddie fricking Jones ranked ahead of Allen Iverson with a similar number of games played.
Iverson could create more opportunities...he played the lanes for fast break scoring opportunities because it's the only thing he cared about (scoring)
he was an amazing scorer, and fun to watch but he's entirely overrated. better than jones but not by leaps and bounds.
and Iverson didn't carry the sixers to the finals. he carried them offensively. on defense it was mutumbo carrying them while Iverson made it a 4 on 5 hardship.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 12:23 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
So taking the career and season VORP figures, it has a lot of validity.
Except Jordan quit for basically two seasons in his prime to play baseball. He would likely be 8-0 Championships if he hadn't.
Who knows who would be better if they played under the same circumstances. Jordan just seems like more of a competitor imo.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 12:29 pm to zatetic
quote:
He would likely be 8-0 Championships if he hadn't.
No.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 12:32 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
No.
As a Rockets fan, thank you
Posted on 6/2/17 at 12:32 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
There is nothing he brings to the table along with this collection of Cavs that would frighten this golden state team.
yeah i maen KD has what, almost 7 inches of height on MJ?
does anyboody think MJ is going to be the difference in guarding KD?
he'll for sure get points, but he's going to have major defensive issues
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