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re: Ohio State is easily deserving of a playoff berth.

Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:33 pm to
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

Did Ohio State's loss to Penn State matter? Does the Big 10 Title Game matter? Games have never all mattered equally.
Yes they mattered. That's why we are having the debate. If we went based on overall record and strength of schedule, PSU wouldn't even be in the discussion.
Posted by monkeybutt
Member since Oct 2015
4583 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

Ohio State choked. Penn State didn't


In terms of making the playoffs, PSU choked when they played pitt and mich.

I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree here. This conversation is going nowhere if you think Navy/WMU deserve to go over 11-1 OSU or 12-1 Bama in a playoff that is supposed to pair the 4 best teams in the country.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:34 pm to
Non-conference wins because there are more than 4 conferences. Those games, and the difficulty of them, determine which conference champions make the playoffs. Playing a weak OOC schedule is a dangerous game where winning your conference ends up being not enough.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

Those games, and the difficulty of them, determine which conference champions make the playoffs. Playing a weak OOC schedule is a dangerous game where winning your conference ends up being not enough.
So Arkansas doesn't complete a ridiculously improbable 4th and 25 and win on their SECOND two-point attempt beat Ole Miss in OT last year, Alabama wouldn't have made the playoffs using your criteria.

Yet, Alabama was clearly the best team last year. You want the NATIONAL (keyword) champion to be left our because in some unrelated game, a team won despite a 0.01% chance of that happening?

What is the point of a NATIONAL championship if we can easily leave out the best teams?
This post was edited on 11/30/16 at 3:42 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:49 pm to
Because in a sports league with over 120 teams and only 4 playoff spots, it is impossible for all of those teams to play each other enough to really know who is "best". There has to be a means of whittling down all those teams to just 4. The best and most objective way is to force those teams to compete in divisions of 6 or 7 teams. The best out of those 6 or 7 play the best of another division. That produces 10 conference champions jockying for 4 playoff spots. To evaluate which 4 champions are most worthy, the strength of their games is evaluated. Everyone knew the road map before the season. Ohio State played well and did everythig they needed to do to ensure that if they won their conference that they would be in. They played in a tough conference, beat good teams OOC, and finished with only 1 loss. Unfortunately for them, that 1 loss allowed another team to win their division. They failed to heck all of the boxes needed to be in that group of 10 conference champs who compete for playoff spots. They should not get rewardsd for that by getting to avoid the risk of losing their conference championship game and getting in. The Big 12 has a major bias against it, putting it solidly as the 5th best conference and first one out, because it lacks a championship game. Ohio State should be held to an even stricter standard considering its lack of a division title.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71112 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

Navy or Western Michigan


Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71112 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 3:58 pm to
Conference championships are relatively useless for the playoff under the current structure.

The Big 12 got in last year despite their garbage championship situation.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

The best and most objective way is to force those teams to compete in divisions of 6 or 7 teams.
Posted by VerlanderBEAST
Member since Dec 2011
18981 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

So Arkansas doesn't complete a ridiculously improbable 4th and 25 and win on their SECOND two-point attempt beat Ole Miss in OT last year, Alabama wouldn't have made the playoffs using your criteria.

Yet, Alabama was clearly the best team last year. You want the NATIONAL (keyword) champion to be left our because in some unrelated game, a team won despite a 0.01% chance of that happening?

What is the point of a NATIONAL championship if we can easily leave out the best teams?


We have a tournament to decide who's best and Ohio St got eliminated
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

We have a tournament to decide who's best and Ohio St got eliminated
LINK
quote:

2 Ohio State
You might have to tell the people who make the decisions then.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:25 pm to
How can they be the best teams if they aren't the best teams in their conferences or divisions?
This post was edited on 11/30/16 at 4:26 pm
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

How can they be the best teams if they aren't the best teams in their conferences or divisions?
Well they were first in their division. They lost the tie breaker (an important one that should be considered).

But what if it came down to the "random draw" tie breaker; would they be more or less deserving, depending on the random draw?

Or what if, Michigan, in an unrelated game, beat Iowa? Would OSU then be better than Penn State because they would have won the tie breaker?
Posted by monkeybutt
Member since Oct 2015
4583 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

How can they be the best teams if they aren't the best teams in their conferences or divisions?



Come on now, logically speaking, the four best teams in the country could all be in one division in one conference.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:33 pm to
Ohio State would have won in that scenario. Does it seem arbitrary? Well, a little, but all playoff systems require arbitrary measures to wittle down the teams, unless it's the NBA where over half the damn league makes it in. This is why I rooted for Michigan last weekend, just to eliminate this controversy.
This post was edited on 11/30/16 at 4:35 pm
Posted by monkeybutt
Member since Oct 2015
4583 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:33 pm to
If by tournament, you mean the whole season, then it looks like PSU was eliminated by Pitt.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

Well, a little, but all playoff systems require arbitrary measures to wittle down the teams
And none of those arbitrary measures include conference champions only.

And if it did, then eliminate non-conference games altogether.

I'm sure it will be exciting when OSU plays Purdue and Illinois instead of Oklahoma, or when LSU and Alabama play Vanderbilt instead of Wisconsin and USC.
This post was edited on 11/30/16 at 4:37 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:37 pm to
The NFL gives major deference to division champions. Now, they have wildcard spots as well, but they have a 12 team playoff out of only 32 teams, not a 4 team playoff out of 120+ teams. We do not have the luxury of "wild cards".
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

The NFL gives major deference to division champions.
And they play each team twice, home and away (unless in London). They also add 8 other games, which MATTER, increasing the sample size to 16--rather than the 7 to 9 games (depending on conference) that you're arguing for.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:41 pm to
Yet 7-9 division winners host a playoff game and 11-5 teams sit at home for the postseason.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 11/30/16 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

Yet 7-9 division winners host a playoff game and 11-5 teams sit at home for the postseason.
Well there has only been one full season where a team with a losing record made the playoffs, and no 11-5 teams or better were left out.

And that has been enough for many to advocate for getting rid of divisions.
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