re: NBA Playoffs Day 12 - 4/27 - "Draymond or Harden" Edition

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I think top 10 is a reach though


Maybe, but just thinking out loud, it's hard for me to even think of 9 players better than him. After the top 3, it's hard for me to argue that he's not as good as players like

KD
CP3
Maybe even Russ


I mean, what he does nightly is very impressive

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I am a self admitted D. Green hater, but this to me is laughable. He has filled in admirably for short stints when Curry/Thompson haven't played or haven't played well. However, there are probably 20-30 guys in the NBA asked to do more on a nightly basis than he is. He is at best the 3rd offensive option on the team, so he doesn't have to expend the energy other guys do on that end, and because he has the Splash Bros it gets him easier shots.

I personally have him as a top 25ish player, which is certainly very good. Hell, in this NBA age he's a max contract guy.

No matter what I think he's a good player, as hard as that is for me to say

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Just because you find someone to be lacking intelligence to be arguing against you does not mean they are wrong.

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He aint just lacking intelligence he's flat out wrong 90% of the time. Anything that isn't an opinion and can be proven, he's wrong about it.

Here are a few of his greatest hits I've gathered in the last 2 days, all that were easily proven wrong with a minute or two of research. He would rather spout his stupid BS in every CC thread so he deserves ridicule.


Yep, Barnes has been playing like crap for a little while now.

Spurs are new favorites with this book. Per ESPN


The warriors shoot a lot more 3's than other teams. Especially against the rockets because they are bad at defending the 3 ball. If this was by percentage, the rockets would be nowhere close to the top 4.

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80+% were contested

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No fricking way. Rockets were getting ripped by analysts post-game about how many open 3's they were giving up. ...

I'm a DG hater too, as far as how he conducts himself. I don't like how much he talks during games, I don't even like the look on his face.

So, he's the third scoring option. He's behind the best shooter of all time, and perhaps the second best. So, that's not a knock on him in the slightest.

He is the best facilitator on the team, and one of the top 5 defensive players in the league. How is that laughable?

FWIW, I didn't really convince myself he's better than Russ, but it's a lot closer than you want to give credit for

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And any time your on the same side of the argument as fish finder YOU should probably take a good hard look at your position just saying.

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Coming from the one guy saying James Harden is a good defender, this is rich.

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So, he's the third scoring option. He's behind the best shooter of all time, and perhaps the second best. So, that's not a knock on him in the slightest.

He is the best facilitator on the team, and one of the top 5 defensive players in the league. How is that laughable?

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I am saying it's laughable because he isn't asked to do as much as other players in the league so we can't judge him in the same manner. He has NEVER had to carry his team offensively. Could he do it for long periods? maybe. For example, I think you have him ahead of Harden based on the people you have him "on par" with. However, Harden is asked to carry the load for the Rockets offensively every single night. That is a pressure Draymond doesn't have

I also think you are giving him too much credit for being a "facilitator" when he just passes it to guys who drain 50% of their 3s. As a defender, he's great no question, but he's not even the best defender of his position (that would be Leonard). Lebron could average 15 assists a game with the Splash Brothers receiving his passes

Maybe this is a better comparison. To me, Draymond, right now, is a worse Scottie Pippen (this is NOT an insult). I don't think he is as talented a defender or offensive player as Scottie. Scottie was a top 10 player in the NBA in his age. However, Draymond hasn't been asked to pick up the offense for his team to win (since he has other great offensive weapons). Draymond might get there, but right now I don't think he has earned that level of praise.

Well I think you have to have someone like Draymond on this team to win 73 games. Steph, Klay, and someone else less versatile would not get that done. He's a better Boris Diaw, and I love Boris' game. Passing out of the post and from the top of the key are something they both do very well. Seeing the floor really well enables this, and while having the best shooters certainly helps, he does it with the bench also.

Harden is great at offense at times, you're right. But so is Melo. That comparison won't come off right, but what I'm getting at is many players that play one end of the floor so well do not deserve the same praise as others who play both ends exceptionally well.

Really, we will see if what either of us is saying is correct in the coming days. I think he will have a game or two where his offense lacks, but he will also have a couple that he explodes. Regardless, it's going to be interesting.

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The difference between the best offensive and the worst offensive player is a larger gap than the best and worst defensive players

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I would wager to say the difference between Kawhi and Harden's defense is larger than the gap between Steph and someone else's offense. Grand Canyon comes to mind

The difference between Curry and Biyombo offensively is larger than the gap between Leonard and Ryan Anderson defensively.

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I would wager to say the difference between Kawhi and Harden's defense

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VORP says the combined offense and defense of Harden > the combined offense and defense of Leonard.

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Harden is great at offense at times, you're right. But so is Melo. That comparison won't come off right, but what I'm getting at is many players that play one end of the floor so well do not deserve the same praise as others who play both ends exceptionally well.

Really, we will see if what either of us is saying is correct in the coming days. I think he will have a game or two where his offense lacks, but he will also have a couple that he explodes. Regardless, it's going to be interesting.

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I guess I just don't see him as a franchise leading guy right now. We will somewhat get to see what he can do in the next few weeks, but the Clippers will be without anyone of value themselves. As I said, he may be able to do it, but hasn't done it yet so I'm not putting him above guys who carry their teams already

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I guess I just don't see him as a franchise leading guy right now

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I'm not sure I do either. But I don't think a player like him has to be. What he brings isn't always measurable.

And yea I still can't believe they lost CP AND Blake. Could have been a great series.