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Message
re: Louisiana High School Football will split Public/Private. **Edited with Yes/No**
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:47 am to Interception
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:47 am to Interception
Acadiana coaches you talk to are showing sour grapes. Crowley churns out as many college prospects, if not more, than Notre Dame. Comeaux gets hurt by STM not because STM recruits, but because Comeaux has always done a half-arse job with athletics. Teurlings has a couple of good players, but it is far from a select team. Acadiana is good. Carencro is good.
Sounds like people rationalizing their own failures.
Sounds like people rationalizing their own failures.
1
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:53 am to supatigah
quote:
This will also give School Boards that have select admission public schools time to decide if they will allow the charters, magnets, etc under their jurisdiction to leave the LHSAA if the school principals request it
So you could have 3 sets of state champions? LHSAA select, LHSAA non-select, newly formed association.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:09 pm to TGHub
You'll find this to be the case with a lot of private schools, even ones that are good at football.
In fact, it's part of the reason why they are good. Lots of continuity in their programs.
In fact, it's part of the reason why they are good. Lots of continuity in their programs.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:32 pm to CourseyCorridor
Can the Select schools play up?
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:39 pm to Cecil D Diesel
quote:
Make that a splitting headache
LINK
The before, during and after moments of Friday's historic LHSAA vote when the state's principals voted to immediately split up the football playoffs between public and private schools were filled with so many thoughts that attempting to make sense of it all just might not be possible.
Consequently, I've elected to simply pass along some of the more interesting thoughts both that I heard or that ran across my mind during Friday's proceedings.
First of all, is anyone going to be surprised if Winnfield principal Jane Griffin proposes next year that every school in the state automatically qualify for the playoffs?
If indeed Karr wouldn't be a charter school, and therefore a select school, had it not opened up its doors so students could have a place to go to school after Katrina, does anyone really think that's fair?
Some of the analogies used by angry principals Friday went a little too far, but has there ever really been anything truly "separate but equal" in this country? Is that even possible?
I could genuinely appreciate the relief — real or not — felt by those schools that truly get "zero" students outside their attendance zone.
What's more select — a public school with 20 percent of its students outside its zone or a private school with 5 percent?
Really? West Monroe voted yes. Really?
LHSAA Executive Director Kenny Henderson said Friday's vote wasn't an indictment on his office, but rather a choice of the LHSAA's principals. Several coaches and principals I spoke with said the vote was totally a statement being made that the rules haven't been properly enforced after years of outcries for help.
So did anyone get the right message Friday? Was there even one right or constructive message or proper behavior to be gotten in the whole meeting? Or was it a film that we should burn and never show to any of our kids?
Did Friday's vote actually put more pressure on the public school head football coaches around the state to win?
Will the recruiting now escalate at a higher rate in the public or private schools from now on?
Really? Barbe voted yes. Really?
Teurlings Principal Mike Boyer stated that this infamous Item 18 was tabled last year and yet not one bit of study was done on it and not one committee was formed to investigate it. Meanwhile, many of the principals who voted for it have been wondering why so little was done to address their concerns since the last split proposal came to the table eight years ago.
Is there really not anyone creative enough in this state to figure out a way to kick John Curtis and Evangel to the curb, so we can save the LHSAA before its overwhelmed with mediocrity?
When the initial vote for a roll call failed, it wasn't the finest hour for many of our state's principals.
So let me get this one straight, if your school has 24 percent outside your attendance zone, you're a peach, but if it has 26 percent, then you can't play here anymore? And that school with 24 percent of its students outside the zone, that's a nonselect school?
How many nondistrict games and/or tournaments between public and private schools will now be played — even in sports other than football — in the future?
If you don't think that a line was drawn in the sand on Friday in Baton Rouge, I think you're fooling yourself.
What really are the chances of a group of people who want it easier to get it easier and then vote to go back to harder?
On Friday, many used the analogy that the LHSAA changed the boys and girls basketball state tournaments last year, saw that it wasn't good and then voted to change it back as a suggestion that if this new Item 18 doesn't go over well, that they'll change it back. Faulty thinking. There wasn't any whooping and hollering and calling people names when that basketball tournament vote passed the year before. There weren't any lines drawn in the sand with that basketball tournament vote. Not the same animal.
Really? Peabody is a nonselect school. Really?
Does anyone feel kind of strange about nonfootball playing Class B and C schools playing such a key role in the vote to split up the football playoffs?
Has it hit anyone yet that there may never be another football state champion in Louisiana ever again?
Is there actually a level that could be reached to where the Winnfield principal and her supporters would consider to be too watered down for the good of the state?
With so much talk recently above increasing academic standards for our athletes, did we just lower the bar in the athletic arena?
What will the legislature have to say about this?
The bold part is where the Commissioner and the Executive Committee lost the initiative and allowed the issue to get away from them. They only have themselves to blame for what happens next
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:40 pm to Interception
quote:
They blame the open recruiting by Teurlings, STM and Notre Dame
ND recruits......lol.....the real issue is these schools have the cash to pay and retain the best coaches in the state period. There aint a public school out there that wouldnt want Cook or Teurling's coach.
If east feliciana would have been coached by Cook they could have beat John Curtis.
But sure ND recruits every slow short player from Mermentau, Egan, Rayne, Crowley, Eunice, etc. If ND recruits why they hell did Bourque and Tharold Simon not get scooped up by them? I mean hell you dont think Bourque enjoyed getting his arse kicked by short slow dudes for 4 years do you?
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:44 pm to LSU316
quote:
ND recruits......lol.....the real issue is these schools have the cash to pay and retain the best coaches in the state period. There aint a public school out there that wouldnt want Cook or Teurling's coach
imagine what Crowley High could do if Cook was their coach.
Wait, we know what crowley high would do if Cook was their coach
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:48 pm to supatigah
quote:
LINK
Coaches, principals, lawmakers react to playoff change
BATON ROUGE — LHSAA executive director Kenny Henderson began Friday's general business meeting by stating that he's always refused to offer his opinion on which way schools should vote when asked, especially on the controversial Item 18 that called for a split of select and non-select schools in the football playoffs.
After Friday's vote of 206-119 has made a reality of Item 18, now it's Henderson who wants some answers.
"We have a lot of work to do," Henderson said. "We've got to look at all the questions we've got."
The first order of business is figuring out the Superdome Classic. With seven state championship games to be decided now, exactly how will that be organized?
Henderson said the first call will be to the Superdome to determine the facility's availability.
Then comes the order of games.
Henderson revealed Friday that the decision had already been made to push Class 5A, 4A and 1A back to Saturday, as it was for years. Next would be to decide if there's going to be a "select school night" or will the select schools be mixed and matched with the Class 3A and 2A public schools?
Shortly thereafter on the agenda is how the entire "select" playoff system will be organized.
The proposal now calls for a 32-team Division I and a 48-team Division II bracket.
"Nothing in the proposal said which 32 of the 48 teams are going to make the playoffs," Henderson said.
Some have already begun the push to actually expand the "select" school side to three divisions to avoid the safety concerns of Class 5A schools competing against 3A schools.
"I don't know what's going to happen there," Henderson said. "I would say that we're going to need to call a meeting of all of the select schools to figure these things out."
As the proposal was passed, the public school bracket will continue to be determined by power rankings. Because the private school brackets have such huge differences in enrollment, the power rankings won't work to determine playoff seeds. The easiest solution is for the coaches to seed the playoff teams, much like the soccer coaches do now. But first, the "select" schools must determine how many divisions and the criteria for playoff qualification.
Once all the logistical issues are addressed, then comes the reality of the moving forward.
"It kind of got uglier than some people anticipated," Acadiana High Principal David LeJeune said of the atmosphere at Friday's vote at the Crowne Plaza in Baton Rouge.
Jesuit requested and was granted a roll call, so each school announced its vote at the conclusion of the meeting.
"It was tough," LeJeune said. "There are people that you have known and respected for a long time. And by voting the way you felt was best for your school, you hurt their school in the process. It's unfortunate."
If indeed those hard feelings linger, how difficult will it be to play the regular season "together" before separating in the postseason?
"I think that's going to depend on the maturity level of the people involved," Teurlings Catholic Principal Mike Boyer said. "I think things are going to get a little testy."
Then the next level many are wondering about: Will Friday's vote mean splits in more sports?
"What is this going to lead to?" Carencro principal Ken Roebuck said.
"If it works out and some public schools see some success that they wouldn't have seen, then I think it will eventually go into other sports also," LeJeune said.
In Friday's meeting, the proposal that included all the sports wasn't even voted off the table.
Also in the "What next?" category is, will the state legislature or judicial system get the last word on this issue?
"They might try to get involved," said LHSAA executive committee member Tommy Hodges of Doyle High. "I'd rather not speak on that."
According to Lafayette state Sen. Page Cortez, "It's absolutely a possibility."
Cortez was an athlete at Lafayette High, later a coach and also a father of a high school athlete.
"Personally, I think it's a sad day in the history of Louisiana high school football," he said. "My phone has been ringing off the hook all day. I represent parents from St. Thomas More, Ascension Episcopal and even ESA and Westminster. If the phone calls I've received today are any indication, I would be obligated as their state senator to give them their day in court. So I'd say, yes, that it's very realistic that there would be legislative action on this vote."
If there is a full split it will be based on the knowledge that splitting football playoffs is just the beginning and will move to basketball and baseball, softball and volleyball too
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:52 pm to supatigah
LINK /
Louisiana Principals Demean and DIminish High School Football
Louisiana Principals Demean and DIminish High School Football
quote:
Yesterday’s vote by the principals of member schools of the Louisiana High School Athletic Association changed high school football as we know it.
And, not for the better.
The principals voted to create separate divisions for the high school football playoffs, splitting the schools into “select” and “non-select” categories. Non-select are the public schools. Select are private, parochial, magnet and charter schools.
This has been coming for quite some time. Public school administrators, coaches and fans have been crying for years about an uneven playing field where select schools could pick and choose the enrollment they wanted based on athletic ability among other things. Public schools called it “recruiting.”
I’m not going to get into that argument, except to say there are plenty of ways for public schools to get around the zoning rules that cover high school athletics. And, frequently, they do.
Pot, meet kettle.
But putting all that aside, my question is, “so what?”
If you look at the last 35 state champions in high school football (that’s every year since Hurricane Katrina changed the landscape), 18 have been won by select schools. Ten of those schools have been named John Curtis or Evangel Christian, and it’s obvious that all of this was put into place because of them.
And, again, my question is “so what?”
You’ll find schools in every state that are dominant in high school football. Some of them are private schools. Some are public schools. Even in Louisiana, that’s the case. It’s not like West Monroe isn’t a public school or anything like that.
No, this is a case of public school officials crying foul and wanting to take their ball and go home. And, frankly, they look pitiful to me.
WAAAAHHHHHH, they are not playing fair. WAHHHHHH, they can cheat and we can’t. WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Schools will continue to play each other based on geographical districts they always have. And, non select schools will still have to beat the big (and in many cases, rich) bullies in order to win a district title. But now, when it’s time to play for the real prize, the state football championship, a third of the football playing membership need not apply.
High school principals watered down the system years ago when they voted for a five classificaton system instead of the four that were in place. Hey, more teams make the playoffs. More state champions are crowned.
Wow!!! Everyone gets a trophy! Let’s all hold hands and sing Kumbaya!!!
So now, instead of five state champions we will have seven. The five non-select classifications remain the same, except with a LOT fewer teams to select from for the playoffs. (Kumbaya). Meanwhile, the select schools will have two divisions. One champion will come from the combination of 5A, 4A and 3A. The other will come from 2A and 1A.
More trophies!!! Kumbaya!!!
But with this split, the public schools have said to the Notre Dames, Parkview Baptists, Rummels and Jesuits, “Hey YOU go play John Curtis and Evangel.” We’ll pick our own champions.”
Except to many, they won’t be champions at all, except on paper.
Remember just a couple of years ago? St. Thomas More defeated Acadiana during the regular season only to be trounced by the Wrecking Rams in the state semifinals. Under the new system, the two schools would not have played in the playoffs. Acadiana may have won the state championship that year, but St. Thomas More fans would be pointing a finger and calling them paper champions.
And, they’d have a point. Which is why this decision is so bad on so many fronts.
It’s one thing to make inclusion to where more teams get the chance to play for a title. It’s another to shun deserving schools and make them go somewhere else to play. What is this, separate but equal? No it isn’t. It’s separate and stupid.
Because what the public school principals did with this vote is to look at their coaches, parents and, most of all players and say “you aren’t good enough to do it on the field, so we’re making separate rules so you can look better.”
I’m not sure that’s the message that was intended. But it’s the reality. It’s saying “you can’t compete” when, in effect it’s been shown time and time again that these teams can…and do.
Bad message. Bad. Bad. Bad
There’s an irony here. The proposal was submitted by the principal from Winnfield High School, who, under quarterback Thomas King, won a state championship back in 1982.
They beat John Curtis.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:57 pm to TGHub
quote:
I can't speak for all private schools, but I was surprised that most of Parkview's students have been there since elementary school. So many of their grads are "13 year seniors" meaning they've been there since kindergarten. I had preconceived ideas about who PBS was, but I was wrong once I saw how things actually worked there.
Parkview really doesn't recruit very much. Parkview is so good year in and year out because the school is a football factory at the sports level and kids go to school there most of their lives. Kids start playing in 5th grade. The teaching and coaching is good and the teams are good for that level. Then everyone moves up to middle school and the teams are good there. Then those players get to high school.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:21 pm to supatigah
quote:
Wait, we know what crowley high would do if Cook was their coach
Indeed......they would take him back tomorrow.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:36 pm to The Boat
I know 2 kids in the last few years whose parents got calls from Parkview after their middle school season. They were both in public schools and both stud football players. They were given a sell job but were told they would have to pay their own way. They may not get who they want but it's not for lack of trying. I actually think one of those kids should have gone to Parkview because he would have developed better as a player. I told his dad that recently. I don't think Parkview ever went out and took a large group of black public school kids just for football like Catholic did a couple of years ago. Parkview is a good program and it is almost to the point it sells itself. You can see how this whole thing is upsetting the private schools. They number around 90 out of the total 388 LHSAA schools. I would be fine if the left the LHSAA but they are gonna try everything under the sun to reverse that because they know with 90 teams its not a viable option.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:47 pm to peopleschamp
quote:
I know 2 kids in the last few years whose parents got calls from Parkview after their middle school season. They were both in public schools and both stud football players. They were given a sell job but were told they would have to pay their own way. They may not get who they want but it's not for lack of trying. I actually think one of those kids should have gone to Parkview because he would have developed better as a player. I told his dad that recently. I don't think Parkview ever went out and took a large group of black public school kids just for football like Catholic did a couple of years ago. Parkview is a good program and it is almost to the point it sells itself. You can see how this whole thing is upsetting the private schools. They number around 90 out of the total 388 LHSAA schools. I would be fine if the left the LHSAA but they are gonna try everything under the sun to reverse that because they know with 90 teams its not a viable option.
So...you knew about a kid who was being illegally recruited - then why didn't you go to the LHSAA?
Of all the privates in BR... PBS spends far less time and effort trying to get new students -
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:26 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
This. Especially when you consider that U High has only won that district in Football the past 2 years. Before that it was Capitol or Donaldsonville I believe. Its not like U High has been running the football district for years or anything. And in other sports its always a fight. I think Dunham won basketball last year and Episcopal the year before that. I know U high won the baseball district last year but i think it was Episcopal the year before. Dunham and Episcopal like the U high rivalry in all sports. They had nothing to do with the move up. To believe so is asinine.
ETA: Not only that but do you think D and E have any power of what the LHSAA does? I can tell you they don't.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:30 pm to supatigah
quote:
If indeed Karr wouldn't be a charter school, and therefore a select school, had it not opened up its doors so students could have a place to go to school after Katrina, does anyone really think that's fair?
This what I don't get-
Prior to the storm Karr was a magnet school that could 'select' their students from Orleans Parish. Now Karr is a charter school that has open enrollment, they can no longer select their students, from Orleans Parish. Their district hasn't changed in over a dozen years.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:42 pm to LSU316
quote:
ND recruits......lol.....the real issue is these schools have the cash to pay and retain the best coaches in the state period. There aint a public school out there that wouldnt want Cook or Teurling's coach.
I couldn't even read the rest of your post, it's that bad!
ND recruit- Yes
Pay of Coaches the Issue- No
Are Louie and Sonny good Coaches - Yes
They best Coaches- I know some GREAT public school coaches too
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:54 pm to supatigah
Supa-that is the best summary and discussion I've seen. You should publish this as is in The Advocate.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:56 pm to supatigah
quote:
There’s an irony here. The proposal was submitted by the principal from Winnfield High School, who, under quarterback Thomas King, won a state championship back in 1982.
They beat John Curtis
Oh the irony?? And how many SC's has JC won since then???
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:58 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
Acadiana coaches you talk to are showing sour grapes.
Maybe, but I believe them when they say Sonny is at a Kiwanis Jamboree banquet openly talking about the kids he recruits from St Martin Parish. We were talking on Thursday night about it at the Crown Hotel.
quote:
Crowley churns out as many college prospects, if not more, than Notre Dame. Comeaux gets hurt by STM not because STM recruits, but because Comeaux has always done a half-arse job with athletics.
What about Jennings, Rayne, Iota, and the other kids they rip away? Have you ever been to a homecoming at ND? When they announce where the students are from nobody is from Crowley.
quote:
Teurlings has a couple of good players, but it is far from a select team. is good. Carencro is good.
Teurlings was a 2A school not to long ago. I've already told you what even Sonny says about recruiting.
quote:
Sounds like people rationalizing their own failures.
Sounds as though you really don't know much about the stats presented in Baton Rouge about the dominance of private schools and state championships.
Removing football, over 60% of the boys state champs in past 10 years were private schools. When the study examined women's sports it's 67% of the time private schools are winning state championships.
The numbers do not lie about what's going on here. Im not even saying I support the split but what Im doing is presenting the case for the split that is coming from the actual coaches and principals.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 3:02 pm to supatigah
quote:
If there is a full split it will be based on the knowledge that splitting football playoffs is just the beginning and will move to basketball and baseball, softball and volleyball too
There is no doubt about it. All sports will be separated within the next few years. In reality, the women's sports have more to bitch about than anybody. Private schools are winning 67% of the state titles in women's sports.
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