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re: How close was Albert Pujols to becoming the GOAT
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:12 pm to cheesesteak501
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:12 pm to cheesesteak501
Pujols was everything that is wrong with modern baseball...to an extent.
Used to be - who was the GOAT?
Mantle - centerfield, Mays? Centerfield...Griffey Centerfield...
Williams left field
Bonds left field (although he was probably one of the worst great hitting left fielders in history) - Bonds played centerfield - but then the Pirates found a guy who didn't suck and switched Bonds to left field. Andy Van Slyke - replaced Bonds...Andy Van Slyke...demoted Barry Bonds...the supposed GOAT.
Point is...
You can't be the Goat of anything if you sit your fat arse on first base.
frick Pujols and frick McGuire.
Yeah Babe Ruth played first base when he was an old man...but he also fricking pitched, played center field and then was switched to left field and was switched to right field and then first base.
Anybody who makes their mark sitting their fat arse on 1st base is no GOAT.
There's more to baseball than just being jack it up...it's about jack of all-trades. All-around. Pujols was a one dimensional freak in one discipline. He wasn't a true baseball player.
No one would ever mistake him for the athleticism plus power of Mays and Mantle and Bonds and Ruth. He was a lumbering stick at the plate.
Used to be - who was the GOAT?
Mantle - centerfield, Mays? Centerfield...Griffey Centerfield...
Williams left field
Bonds left field (although he was probably one of the worst great hitting left fielders in history) - Bonds played centerfield - but then the Pirates found a guy who didn't suck and switched Bonds to left field. Andy Van Slyke - replaced Bonds...Andy Van Slyke...demoted Barry Bonds...the supposed GOAT.
Point is...
You can't be the Goat of anything if you sit your fat arse on first base.
frick Pujols and frick McGuire.
Yeah Babe Ruth played first base when he was an old man...but he also fricking pitched, played center field and then was switched to left field and was switched to right field and then first base.
Anybody who makes their mark sitting their fat arse on 1st base is no GOAT.
There's more to baseball than just being jack it up...it's about jack of all-trades. All-around. Pujols was a one dimensional freak in one discipline. He wasn't a true baseball player.
No one would ever mistake him for the athleticism plus power of Mays and Mantle and Bonds and Ruth. He was a lumbering stick at the plate.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 10:14 pm
2
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:14 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Bonds left field (although he was probably one of the worst great hitting left fielders in history)
Am I misreading this post? Please tell me I am misreading this post.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:18 pm to The Seaward
You are.
Because I said he was one of the best left fielding hitters of all-time.
But truth and obvious...he became a greater hitter once he moved.
Because I said he was one of the best left fielding hitters of all-time.
But truth and obvious...he became a greater hitter once he moved.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:24 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
I guess I'm still not sure what you mean by the part I quoted.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:52 pm to The Seaward
Sure, a likely juiced up Bonds was almost impossible to pitch to then. But that was much later in his career when Pujols was already a MVP candidate his rookie year at 21. And was most other years after that.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 10:58 pm to CRDNLSCHMCPSN11
I guess I just have trouble with anyone other than Bonds being the best player of that generation. WAR isn't perfect and exact, but Barry Bonds has 164 career WAR. Neither Griffey or Pujols break 100. Bonds actually doubles Griffey's career WAR. That is just a massive gap.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:05 pm to The Seaward
What do you want me to say?
He was the best out-fielder of all-time?
No.
There were outfielders who didn't have noodle arms and also great gloves just like Bonds.
He wasn't obviously Pujols...but he wasn't Mays either.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:07 pm to The Seaward
I was surprised Bonds had that much of a higher WAR than Griffey or Pujols. I would not have guessed that. I just don't believe he was clean for part of his peak years, so I don't hold him in such high regard as you do. That was just crazy he was getting walked 200 times a year at 34 or 35.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:12 pm to CRDNLSCHMCPSN11
I think he almost certainly wasn't clean during his peak years, but just judging the results on the field, he was possibly the best player ever. Bonds had a 37.6% walk rate and .609 OBP at age 40. Just mind boggling no matter what he was taking.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 11:17 pm
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:21 pm to The Seaward
He basically admitted it.
He was mad that lesser players were getting the love.
If everyone was clean...Griffey and Bonds would have been the players of their generation by far.
But Bonds saw Mac and Sosa and flipped out.
Bonds would have always been one of the best but he got greedy and ruined his legacy.
I still think head-to-head Griffey was better naturally.
Bonds got all that east coast love...while Griffey was in purgatory up north. Seattle might as well have been Montreal at that point. That's why A-Rod couldn't wait to bolt.
He was mad that lesser players were getting the love.
If everyone was clean...Griffey and Bonds would have been the players of their generation by far.
But Bonds saw Mac and Sosa and flipped out.
Bonds would have always been one of the best but he got greedy and ruined his legacy.
I still think head-to-head Griffey was better naturally.
Bonds got all that east coast love...while Griffey was in purgatory up north. Seattle might as well have been Montreal at that point. That's why A-Rod couldn't wait to bolt.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:27 pm to The Seaward
Bonds had some incredible years. No doubt. But him likely juicing at all during any point of his career negates him from any "best ever" debate in my eyes. Especially when he was invisible in the playoffs until 2002 (admittingly Griffey didn't do much either). But Pujols was money in the playoffs.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:32 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
I still think head-to-head Griffey was better naturally.
I think a lot of people feel that way, but I think it is mostly due to him being more popular and likable. The data just doesn't support it. Looking at just the 90s (before Bonds was likely using), Bonds has a 15 WAR edge on Griffey despite slightly less PAs. Again WAR isn't exact and perfect, but that is too big a gap to explain away.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:35 pm to CRDNLSCHMCPSN11
quote:
(admittingly Griffey didn't do much either).
Well, if we are talking about the playoffs.
Bonds legacy is his inability to throw out the slowest MFer in baseball history in Sid Bream (seriously, how is this guy in the MLB?) He was like the lumbering caricature) of stupid 70's stash white guys.
He beat Bonds' arse.
Contrast...
Griffey had the fastest run from 1st base to home in MLB history...at least by video.
It's a bullshite waY to judge each other...
But hey, it matters. People remember this stuff. You have to come through when it matters. We've been taught that forever. Bonds was a wallflower.
LINK
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:38 pm to The Seaward
quote:
quote:
Bonds left field (although he was probably one of the worst great hitting left fielders in history)
Am I misreading this post? Please tell me I am misreading this post.
the omission of a comma hath befuddled you ... hail the comma ...
Posted on 4/2/17 at 12:02 am to cheesesteak501
quote:
334 BA 42 HR 121 RBI
Babe Ruth
and when you look up his stats, you will observe that when the Red Sox let him pitch in normal rotation, his era was 1.75 and 2.0 the two years. He won 23 and 24. age 20 and age 21. He hit 54 HR in 1920 . 60 was in 1927. 54, 58 and 59 a couple of other years.
So for me Pujos was top ten, but not GOAT. Ruth 1.75 ERA with 38 starts was awesome.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 12:07 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
I was of the opinion Griffey was the best all around player of my generation. But he didn't do that much in the playoffs. Yes, I remember him scoring from 1B in the 9th or 10th inning in Game 5 of the 1995 NLDS. Yes, I know the Mariners didn't have any pitching behind Johnson back then. It's a shame he wanted out of Seattle so bad then. Would have been fun watching him in the playoffs in 2000 and 2001 back then when the Mariners became good again.
Van Slyke said on MLB Network he told Bonds to shift closer to the gap since he knew Cabrera was more likely to hit the ball there in that NLCS. But Bonds was too stubborn. So he wouldn't shift to where Cabrera hit the single to score Justice and slow arse Bream. That likely cost Bonds throwing out Bream there. I think the only reason Bream was still in the game was the Braves had no pinch hitters left or no one left to play 1B. Van Slyke said Bonds flipped him off when he told Bonds to shift right before the game winning hit.
Van Slyke said on MLB Network he told Bonds to shift closer to the gap since he knew Cabrera was more likely to hit the ball there in that NLCS. But Bonds was too stubborn. So he wouldn't shift to where Cabrera hit the single to score Justice and slow arse Bream. That likely cost Bonds throwing out Bream there. I think the only reason Bream was still in the game was the Braves had no pinch hitters left or no one left to play 1B. Van Slyke said Bonds flipped him off when he told Bonds to shift right before the game winning hit.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 12:53 am to AUCE05
quote:
Knew a cards fan would be in soon to bash the guy.
Yep BEST
FANS
IN
BASEBALL
Posted on 4/2/17 at 1:31 am to AlonsoWDC
He wasn't even bashing him. All he said was he was glad the Angels signed him.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 2:12 am to CRDNLSCHMCPSN11
quote:He wasn't the best all around player of his own team
I was of the opinion Griffey was the best all around player of my generation.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 2:18 am to VerlanderBEAST
Then who was?
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