re: Face it Federer is the GOAT

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Borna Coric is probably the best bet to be the next great player in tennis. He's only 18 years old yet he already has wins over Nadal and Murray and made two ATP 500 semifinals. He's also climbed all the time at way to 37th in the world which is very impressive for a player of his age. By comparison, Novak Djokovic was ranked 63rd in the world at age 18. Kyrgios is also another promising player. He was the first player to make two GS quarterfinals as a teenager since some guy by the name of Roger Federer. There are some questions about him though. His return game is well below average, his attitude can be very bad and he's been pretty injury prone for a young player. But his mental toughness is off the charts for a player his age and I think all of his issues can be fixed as he gets older and gains more maturity.

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Alexander Zverev has had some good results as well starting his career on the ATP tour.

ATP Rankings For Players Not Yet 19

40 Borna Coric CRO 1996-11-14
74 Alexander Zverev GER 1997-04-20
155 Jared Donaldson USA 1996-10-09
207 Andrey Rublev RUS 1997-10-20
278 Duck Hee Lee KOR 1998-05-29
291 Francis Tiafoe USA 1998-01-20
293 Quentin Halys FRA 1996-10-26
336 Omar Jasika AUS 1997-05-18
365 Stefan Kozlov USA 1998-02-01


Rankings by various other age-groups

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Now, can anyone explain why I was so shocked to see Nadal in GOAT talks??? I've watched him for years and years now. But the first time I clicked one of these GOAT threads and read his accomplishments I was like "hmmm, nice, wait a sec, holy shite!"

How the hell did I miss this? I'd never claim to be a tennis expert but what the hell, I've missed something.

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I'm honestly not sure how Nadal could have snuck up on you like that. He's got 14 majors and has played in more than his fair share of all-time classic matches.*

Has Djokovic snuck up on you as well? He hasn't quite made his way into GOAT conversations, but he's now a certifiable all-time great and will certainly start making his way into those kinds of conversations.


*A few notables:
2008 Wimbledon Final Highlights - Nadal v. Federer
2012 Australian Open Final Highlights - Nadal v. Djokovic
2013 French Open Semifinal Highlights - Nadal v. Dkokovic
2009 Australian Open Final Highlights - Nadal v. Federer

ETA: most people will go with the 2008 Wimbledon final as the best Federer/Nadal match, but I think I lean 2009 Aussie. The level of play in that match was just nuts. One of my favorite matches ever.

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ETA: Appreciate the links

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The pleasure is all mine. Those matches should be seen by all.

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He really needs that career slam to solidify any claim on GOAT that he may have in the future. He is also going to have to get to around 12 or so slams total in my opinion, and I think he has a really good chance in the next 2-3 years - after that, historically its pretty iffy historically in men's tennis with regards to age.

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True, but Djokovic does have a frame that seems built for longevity. The fact that he's like four miles past being a health nut doesn't hurt either. I don't see any signs of his level dropping in the next few years.

And it's borderline absurd that he hasn't won the French yet. There's no way he's not gonna win that tournament.

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How the hell did I miss this? I'd never claim to be a tennis expert but what the hell, I've missed something.

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The truth is Nadal came along at a time when there was no great competition, much like Federer. It's insane how people use Nadal's record against Federer to hype Nadal, as if Federer wasn't well past his prime. In his prime, Federer would have thumped Nadal everywhere but on clay. Nadal is probably the GOAT on clay, but nothing special elsewhere, especially grass.

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The truth is Nadal came along at a time when there was no great competition, much like Federer. It's insane how people use Nadal's record against Federer to hype Nadal, as if Federer wasn't well past his prime. In his prime, Federer would have thumped Nadal everywhere but on clay. Nadal is probably the GOAT on clay, but nothing special elsewhere, especially grass

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Dear arcalades,

Welcome to Earth. Here on Earth, what you've just written above is the most insanely idiotic thing ever communicated. At no point were you even in the ballpark of something that could be loosely construed as anything other than abject falsity. I actually can't believe I just read it.


No. Year Tournament Surface Round Winner Score Length (H:MM) Sets Federer Nadal
1. 2004 Miami Hard R32 Nadal 6–3, 6–3 1:10 2/3 0 1
2. 2005 Miami Hard Final Federer 2–6, 6–7(4–7), 7–6(7–5), 6–3, 6–1 3:43 5/5 1 1
3. 2005 Roland Garros Clay Semi-final Nadal 6–3, 4–6, 6–4, 6–3 2:47 4/5 1 2
4. 2006 Dubai Hard Final Nadal 2–6, 6–4, 6–4 1:53 3/3 1 3
5. 2006 Monte Carlo Clay Final Nadal 6–2, 6–7(2–7), 6–3, 7–6(7–5) 3:50 4/5 1 4
6. 2006 Rome Clay Final Nadal 6–7(0–7), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 2–6, 7–6(7–5) 5:05 5/5 1 5
7. 2006 Roland Garros Clay Final Nadal 1–6, 6–1, 6–4, 7–6(7–4) 3:02 4/5 1 6
8. 2006 Wimbledon Grass Final Federer 6–0, 7–6(7–5), 6–7(2–7), 6–3 2:58 4/5 2 6
9. 2006 Tennis Masters Cup Hard (i) Semi-final Federer 6–4, 7–5 1:53 2/3 3 6
10. 2007 Monte Carlo Clay Final Nadal 6–4, 6–4 1:35 2/3 3 7
11. 2007 Hamburg Clay Final Federer 2–6, 6–2, 6–0 1:55 3/3 4 7
12. 2007 Roland Garros Clay Final Nadal 6–3, 4–6, 6–3, 6–4 3:10 4/5 4 8
13. 2007 Wimbledon Grass Final Federer 7–6(9–7), 4–6, 7–6(7–3), 2–6, 6–2 3:45 5/5 5 8
14. 2007 Tennis Masters Cup Hard (i) Semi-final Federer 6–4, 6–1 0:59 2/3 6 8
15. 2008 Monte Carlo Clay Final Nadal 7–5, 7–5 1:43 2/3 6 9
16. 2008 Hamburg Clay Final Nadal 7–5, 6–7(3–7), 6–3 2:52 3/3 6 10
17. 2008 Roland Garros Clay Final Nadal 6–1, 6–3, 6–0 1:48 3/5 6 11
18. 2008 Wimbledon Grass Final Nadal 6–4, 6–4, 6–7(5–7), 6–7(8–10), 9–7 4:48 5/5 6 12
19. 2009 Australian Open Hard Final Nadal 7–5, 3–6, 7–6(7–3), 3–6, 6–2 4:23 5/5 6 13
20. 2009 Madrid Clay Final Federer 6–4, 6–4 1:26 2/3 7 13
21. 2010 Madrid Clay Final Nadal 6–4, 7–6(7–5) 2:10 2/3 7 14
22. 2010 ATP World Tour Finals Hard (i) Final Federer 6–3, 3–6, 6–1 1:37 3/3 8 14
23. 2011 Miami Hard Semi-final Nadal 6–3, 6–2 1:18 2/3 8 15
24. 2011 Madrid Clay Semi-final Nadal 5–7, 6–1, 6–3 2:36 3/3 8 16
25. 2011 Roland Garros Clay Final Nadal 7–5, 7–6(7–3), 5–7, 6–1 3:40 4/5 8 17
26. 2011 ATP World Tour Finals Hard (i) RR Federer 6–3, 6–0 1:00 2/3 9 17
27. 2012 Australian Open Hard Semi-final Nadal 6–7(5–7), 6–2, 7–6(7–5), 6–4 3:42 4/5 9 18
28. 2012 Indian Wells Hard Semi-final Federer 6–3, 6–4 1:31 2/3 10 18
29. 2013 Indian Wells Hard Quarter-final Nadal 6–4, 6–2 1:24 2/3 10 19
30. 2013 Rome Clay Final Nadal 6–1, 6–3 1:08 2/3 10 20
31. 2013 Cincinnati Hard Quarter-final Nadal 5–7, 6–4, 6–3 2:14 3/3 10 21
32. 2013 ATP World Tour Finals Hard (i) Semi-final Nadal 7–5, 6–3 1:19 2/3 10 22
33. 2014 Australian Open Hard Semi-final Nadal 7–6(7–4), 6–3, 6–3 2:24 3/5 10 23


Enjoy your stay here in reality, good sir.

SG

Mcenroe: "My top 4 are Laver, Sampras, Roger and Nadal, but Novak is #5. Above Borg."

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Novak is starting to put up sick numbers just like those. Too bad he lost that RG final because this could have been a GOAT year and get him right near that top five all time.

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Big fan of Djoko, sickens me he lost RG. I watched every match I could of his in 2011 and I've never seen anything like that season (although Sampras in late 90's was bad arse). This year could have been a calendar slam but he choked.

As far as Fed, he didn't always have the competition he has since Rafa and Djoko came into their own. There was a while where Fed should have won because who else was going to; Roddick?

Fed is the man though. I was always a big fan of Sampras and Agassi, but now it's been Djoko for a while. Crazy that he's lost 8 Slams and has 9 wins, he should be in double digits already and he could've passed Fed. Now I'm not so sure.

Fed isn't the GOAT sorry