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Message
re: Cuban and Stern on College
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:31 pm to ottothewise
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:31 pm to ottothewise
quote:
parity
im going to go with the up all night studying excuse
0
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:31 pm to Tennessee Jed
Kobe only played 15 minutes per game as a rookie. And I get that if you are good enough to go pro then go, but the amount of players there are that can do that and succeed at the same time, are maybe 1 or 2 a year. Also, how many will start and have 25 minutes per game right away? If you get put on a shitty team then maybe 2 or 3 rookies. Add in that a lot of weight and muscle gain happens around 18-20 years old, so players change and get better during those years and its harder to gauge how they will look 2 years out of HS.
This post was edited on 4/5/12 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:31 pm to Tennessee Jed
quote:
If anything Kobe, Lebron, Bynum, KG would have taken more time to develop into superstars, if they'd been forced to attend college. Because they would have been languishing in a flawed and outdated development system.
If you're a pro basketball talent, you need to play pro basketball. not wasting your time studying math and writing freshman english papers.
Have you noticed how emotionally/intellectually stunted those guys are? I'm not saying a couple years in college would have made them more mature people, but it definitely couldn't have hurt.
LeBron still acts like he's in high school, as does Garnett. Bynum acts even younger. Kobe is the most well adjusted of those 4 and he's still got issues.
So maybe writing those papers wouldn't have made them better basketball players, but it at least had a chance to make them less shitty people.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:33 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
Agreed, that's the other point. People have this conversation under the assumption there are more than 2-3 people a year that are even capable of this.
I still contend 1 year playing 10 minutes a game in the NBA is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better for a players development than playing 35 minutes a game one year in college.
I still contend 1 year playing 10 minutes a game in the NBA is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better for a players development than playing 35 minutes a game one year in college.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:36 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
So maybe writing those papers wouldn't have made them better basketball players, but it at least had a chance to make them less shitty
would never argue against that, no question, some time in college would have helped them develop into more well rounded individuals
But I love the NBA, and couldn't care any less.
I want to see them play basketball. I have no interest in their personal life or actions.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:37 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
let's say the next blake griffin in college in his third year blows out his knee... when everyone knows he should have been playing those years in the NBA. fans are gonna feel cheated that players are stuck in college longer than they have to be. players who are too good for college ball will get bored with it.
i'm so sick of this generic excuse... with modern medicine, how many athletes have you heard that 'blew out their knee' and never played again?
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:40 pm to Tennessee Jed
I would make it two years. That way some guys who who play at community colleges could jump to the NBA. I think you'd see some better community college baseketball. If a kid can't do the act or get the grades for a university let the kid play at the juco level.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:41 pm to Tennessee Jed
quote:
I still contend 1 year playing 10 minutes a game in the NBA is
Maybe it is, but at the same time in college some players grow and then get used to their bodies and are more NBA read then they would've been 2 years ago. Now some players are just man-childs and are gonna be dominant no matter what like Lebron. It's just very hard to gauge that type of stuff, which I'm guessing the owners weren't happy when it didn't work out so they made the one and done rule and even then they are still missing out on certain players. Maybe with this rule they are able to cut down on busts a little bit more.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:43 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
The question isn't really NBA vs college. It's D-League vs College.
Not being able to practice and focus on basketball year round hinders development. Simple as that.
A productive academy system/minor league system is what's allowed a country like Spain to become competitive with the US.
Not being able to practice and focus on basketball year round hinders development. Simple as that.
A productive academy system/minor league system is what's allowed a country like Spain to become competitive with the US.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:47 pm to Tennessee Jed
Some kids just want to go to college. Others that are good enough go to the D-league for a year or so while getting a salary. Our college ranks are already pretty damn competitive, shore up the D-league and suddenly professional basketball in the US seems a lot more organized, something that the NBA has been against for the last 20 or 30 years and rather were trying to get a product closer to street ball.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 3:49 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
quote:
were trying to get a product closer to street ball.
this is the reason i can't stand watching the NBA
Posted on 4/5/12 at 4:13 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
No reason guys like LeBron, Durant, etc. should have to go to college, and especially not for 3 years. I understand why Calipari would like this rule. I wouldn't be a fan.
This post was edited on 4/5/12 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 4/5/12 at 4:16 pm to CRAZY 4 LSU
quote:
The three year rule would make basketball on all levels better. It creates more parity in college as big time players won't all go to the same team and ride the bench. Also, the extra development will make players more pro ready.
You think a year of development in college is better than a year of development in the NBA?
Posted on 4/5/12 at 4:16 pm to droman225
quote:
I am 100% behind this
Posted on 4/5/12 at 4:18 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
I sort of like the D-League idea.
BRING TWEETY BACK TO THE STATES
BRING TWEETY BACK TO THE STATES
Posted on 4/5/12 at 6:23 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
hey will HAVE to go to the D-league, much like a HS kid in baseball HAS to go to the minors.
I see what you are saying but that is just not true. They do not HAVE to go to the minors. Actually, two High school guys have gone from HS to the majors. It has been a while but it NO way shape or form is it a rule.
Posted on 4/5/12 at 9:04 pm to jacks40
quote:
Let's just go back to no rule.
/thread
Posted on 4/6/12 at 2:04 am to VerlanderBEAST
I don't think the rule is very fair. Once someone is of legal age to work, then they should be allowed to hold a job. If they have the required skill set to play in the NBA, then they should have the right to be employed.
Making college basketball better or worse shouldn't be part of the discussion. We're going to stop an 18 year old from becoming a millionaire so he can make college basketball better? I don't think holding back someone's career so we can get better college athletics is a good idea. When the kid has a unique skill set and his future is in basketball we're going to pretend it's important that he gets an education and becomes well rounded?
Making players wait three years does make it way easier on the GMs. They probably have less chance of drafting busts because they'll get to evaluate a player for 3 additional years against college competition. I still don't see why we should hold back a young man's career to make life easier on a GM. GMs get paid a lot of money to evaluate prospects, etc.
I don't buy the ruining young men's lives comments either. Greg Oden is rich because he got to the NBA before his knees died. If he'd gone to college for 2 more years, then he'd be poor because he was injured making money for NCAA basketball. Its a shame his career is dying, however these were work related injuries. I think it is good that he was allowed to work instead of risking his body for free for another two years at Ohio State. I'd rather be a bust in the NBA than a bust in college. If I bust in the NBA, then I'm rich. If I bust in college, then I'm broke. I think option two would ruin my day a bit more.
Look at the list of players from 2004: Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorell Wright.
Howard is an all star. Livingston has had a decent career despite a disgusting knee injury. Swift is no longer in the NBA probably due to 2 major knee injuries. Telfair is still playing, but I'm sure he would suck had he gone to college or not. Jefferson, Smith, Smith, and Wright have all turned into good players. If you look at that year, there weren't a lot of busts.
2005:
Martell Webster
Andrew Bynum
Gerald Green
CJ Miles
Ricky Sanchez
Monta Ellis
Louis Williams
Andray Blatche
Amir Johnson
Not a lot of busts on the 2005 list. No telling if they would be better or worse had they gone to college, however most of these guys made it in the NBA. Not every player is going to be great, however most of these guys have successful careers. Bynum and Ellis have become big time players. Gerald Green appears to have been taken off the bust list. Ricky Sanchez is the only one that isn't currently in the NBA.
I think what the whole rule serves to do is hold back a young man's career to make college athletics money and protect NBA GMs. I can't come up with a reason to take money from a kid and give it to the NCAA. I also think bad GMs will exist whether you allow kids to jump straight from high school or not. You can only protect a GM so much if he isn't very good.
Making college basketball better or worse shouldn't be part of the discussion. We're going to stop an 18 year old from becoming a millionaire so he can make college basketball better? I don't think holding back someone's career so we can get better college athletics is a good idea. When the kid has a unique skill set and his future is in basketball we're going to pretend it's important that he gets an education and becomes well rounded?
Making players wait three years does make it way easier on the GMs. They probably have less chance of drafting busts because they'll get to evaluate a player for 3 additional years against college competition. I still don't see why we should hold back a young man's career to make life easier on a GM. GMs get paid a lot of money to evaluate prospects, etc.
I don't buy the ruining young men's lives comments either. Greg Oden is rich because he got to the NBA before his knees died. If he'd gone to college for 2 more years, then he'd be poor because he was injured making money for NCAA basketball. Its a shame his career is dying, however these were work related injuries. I think it is good that he was allowed to work instead of risking his body for free for another two years at Ohio State. I'd rather be a bust in the NBA than a bust in college. If I bust in the NBA, then I'm rich. If I bust in college, then I'm broke. I think option two would ruin my day a bit more.
Look at the list of players from 2004: Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorell Wright.
Howard is an all star. Livingston has had a decent career despite a disgusting knee injury. Swift is no longer in the NBA probably due to 2 major knee injuries. Telfair is still playing, but I'm sure he would suck had he gone to college or not. Jefferson, Smith, Smith, and Wright have all turned into good players. If you look at that year, there weren't a lot of busts.
2005:
Martell Webster
Andrew Bynum
Gerald Green
CJ Miles
Ricky Sanchez
Monta Ellis
Louis Williams
Andray Blatche
Amir Johnson
Not a lot of busts on the 2005 list. No telling if they would be better or worse had they gone to college, however most of these guys made it in the NBA. Not every player is going to be great, however most of these guys have successful careers. Bynum and Ellis have become big time players. Gerald Green appears to have been taken off the bust list. Ricky Sanchez is the only one that isn't currently in the NBA.
I think what the whole rule serves to do is hold back a young man's career to make college athletics money and protect NBA GMs. I can't come up with a reason to take money from a kid and give it to the NCAA. I also think bad GMs will exist whether you allow kids to jump straight from high school or not. You can only protect a GM so much if he isn't very good.
Posted on 4/6/12 at 7:03 am to arwicklu
would like to see them stay longer in college but if I was a top tier kid I'd say "MFer what?"
For some of these guys even passing through college 1 year is a sham.
I like the baseball rule idea that others have posted.
For some of these guys even passing through college 1 year is a sham.
I like the baseball rule idea that others have posted.
Posted on 4/6/12 at 8:24 am to arwicklu
quote:
I think what the whole rule serves to do is hold back a young man's career to make college athletics money and protect NBA GMs. I can't come up with a reason to take money from a kid and give it to the NCAA. I also think bad GMs will exist whether you allow kids to jump straight from high school or not. You can only protect a GM so much if he isn't very good.
This.
Tom Ziller wrote about this issue yesterday morning.
LINK
quote:
The age minimum was meant to protect teams from themselves. It's worked. Now it's time to turn the attention back to the players at risk. Stern doesn't need to worry about how it affects Emmert's fiefdom. Creating an in-house option is simply good for the NBA and its stars. The even better solution? Abandon the age minimum, expand the D-League and let teams figure out their own paths. I'm sure Emmert would be overjoyed with that decision.
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