re: Cuban and Stern on College

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nothing this year really changed my opinion

super raw big man who is super athletic and good at defense. that's what he was a year ago, and that's what he is now

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Fair enough. I think he proved he could be an elite anchor on defense.

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i think barnes is a good example of a player who was hurt by college. he was allowed to coast and develop a 1-sided game because he didn't have to do anything else in college.

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A good point. But even his first year revealed that he's not a franchise player. Coming out of HS, he was the next superstar wing.

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kobe slid to like 12th and nobody batted an eye when he was traded for divac

people knew who kg was in the sense that he was the first high schooler in ages, but nobody knew what his game would be. nobody knew if he'd be a 3/4/5 or what his game was.

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Of course no one batted an eye when trading an All-Star center for a rookie, HS, guard. But that doesn't mean he wasn't well known. Taking Brandy to his prom was a national news story. His first game in Chicago was a national tv game. Jordan, the legend, v Kobe, the young gun.

Garnett, you're right, is a little trickier. He got a lot of hype because he was the first one in 20 years to try it. He did have an SI feature (if not cover story) and, in a god-forsaken market, was an All-Star by his second year in the league.

But the larger point is that missing the year of publicity didn't hurt any of these guys. That year only helps if you care about draft night ratings.

The NBA doesn't need the NCAA's help to market players. They are the best in the world at that.

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they did it so that when kevin durant, derrick rose, or anthony davis were drafted, fans knew who they were

it's been highly successful

those 3 players would have been top 3 picks in almost any draft had they come out of high school

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eggsactly

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But even his first year revealed that he's not a franchise player.

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for the college game, being coached by roy fricking williams. he has all the tools to be a great scoring wing, but going to college hurt his game. staying 2 years made it worse

college is a different game than the NBA

also, college coaches aren't being paid to develop players into NBA players. they're paid to win college games. roy williams is going to use barnes how he needs, in a different game, to make his team better.

kg was worried about this, and that's why he didn't go to college (and why he refuses to let his height be listed at taller than 6-11). davis likely would be a better NBA player today had he gone straight to the NBA. NBA teams would be developing his ballhandling/shooting tools and wouldn't just be sticking him down low to play defense

davis may have the ability to be an NBA 3, like KG, but he lost a year of development doing this going to UK

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But that doesn't mean he wasn't well known

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in terms of BBall, he wasn't. he would never go 12th today, because the NBA has changed. when kobe came out there was still a stigma for high school kids and teams worried about busts. he should have never lasted to 12th

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But the larger point is that missing the year of publicity didn't hurt any of these guys.

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bullshite

you think kobe would have gone 12th after he had a good/great freshman year at duke?

or, let me put it this way: would the fans of the team who traded his rights have accepted that after he was a name following 1 year at duke?

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ESPN wonders if popularity decline is due to gambling

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I have argued that part of the popularity of the NFL is due to gambling and fantasy.

Fantasy sports started with Baseball, but football is just better for it. That's not Selig's fault. In the wake of waning popularity that they are making record profits, teams are seilling for record amounts, they are setting attn records, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job.

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Fantasy sports started with Baseball, but football is just better for it. That's not Selig's fault. In the wake of waning popularity that they are making record profits, teams are seilling for record amounts, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job.

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I agree with both of you guys on that. I'm just a bit concerned that waning popularity will eventually catch up and start causing an impact. It is a long term concern obviously.

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In 1985 baseballs popularity was on par with the NFL.

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frick no. the NFL still beat baseball's arse

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College football is almost even with baseball

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college football is beyond baseball

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So you are telling me a 7 foot center takes more time to develop then a 6 foot 3 PG where the offense runs through him? Sure.

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a good point, esp one who runs an offense (which is rare, mind you) takes the 2nd longest to develop...behind bigs

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And the one and done rule was made because more and more players were making the HS to NBA jump.

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i don't even know if this is true. do you have the stats on the # who declared each year?

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Also, is it not easier to gauge a kid one year after HS in which he played in a league more competitive from where he came?

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not really, for 2 reasons

1. college ball is NOT nba ball. it's an inferior game with rules that don't exist in the NBA

2. these kids are still better than their competitors. it's not as big of a gap as high school, but it may be a smaller gap than elite AAU ball.

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I mean, in the 2004 and 2005 draft you had Shaun Livingston drafted 4th and Martell Webster at 6th the next year.

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and livingston had his career derailed due to a horrific injury, and webster is a good role player

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And since then you can only truly say Adam Morrison

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years in college did wonders for him and protecting teams from busting

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And the one and done rule was made because more and more players were making the HS to NBA jump. Also, is it not easier to gauge a kid one year after HS in which he played in a league more competitive from where he came? It could also be argued that it did cut down on busts in the top 5 since 2006. I mean, in the 2004 and 2005 draft you had Shaun Livingston drafted 4th and Martell Webster at 6th the next year. And since then you can only truly say Adam Morrison has been the biggest bust and to a lesser degree Sheldon Williams, who was in the same draft. It would be better if it were a 10 year window, but it is still interesting to look at.

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Livingston actually looked really good before that knee injury. That was a truly horrifying event.

That being said there are equal busts to Morrison. Thabeet is there for sure. Joe Alexander, Oden...

If you look over time college didn't help GMs avoid guys like Marcus Fizer, Robert Traylor, Ed O'bannon... and tons of other guys. College actually made these guys look like players and they stunk in the NBA. Number 1 Joe Smith became average Joe. Number 1 never nervous Pervis became out of service Pervis. Jay Williams had the wreck so it is hard to say on him. Anyhow college serves to make many of these guys look great because they're still men playing boys.

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college is a different game than the NBA

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I never said anything to disagree with that. I don't even like college hoops, except to watch future pros. I think the one/done is stupid from the NBA's standpoint.

The idea that the NBA needs help in marketing is just silly. Does it help to have a guy like Durant come in, well known? Sure.

But that wasn't the driving reason for the one/done rule. The idea was that the NBA gets at least a year to look at these players against more balanced competition than HS, AAU camps, or the odd HS All-Star game and someone else foots the bill. NBA teams were tired of drafting Jonathan Bender, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, and even Tyson Chandler with early lottery picks and were too cheap to invest in a developmental league as a true alternative to the NCAA.

You're right that many times the rule doesn't actually change anything (Kyrie Irving).

If you want to talk about how stupid this is on the NBA's part from a development standpoint, I'm right there with you.