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re: Black ex-coaches say NFL's Rooney Rule is broken
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:59 am to DelU249
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:59 am to DelU249
quote:
I think the majority of the American population despite what they say or do, generally do not like black people.
i think the majority of successful people in america, regardless of race, just hate black people who promote the ghetto culture
just like the majority of successful people in america, regardless of race, hate white trash who promote the trailer park culture
the problem is that so many black people live up that culture. if you want to direct these efforts and resources of the anti-racism movement, it should be directed at decreasing THAT number. teach assimilation, a better culture, and the problems of that lifestyle
1
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:00 am to Baloo
quote:
it would seem that, free of any bias whatsoever in hiring, the ratio would be closer to the makeup of those playing football than the actual makeup of the general population.
But, see, I don't understand why one non-biased racial aberration (the makeup of players) should necessarily be expected to beget another (the racial makeup of coaches). I see, what you're saying, how on its face one might think it should, but when reality shows that it doesn't, and it more closely parallels the national statistical racial breakdown, I'm not sure why it should suddenly be seen as some sort of defacto evidence of institutional bias.
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 10:01 am
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:04 am to Golfer
quote:
I'm trying to figure out VOR's argument that an organization that has propelled itself into the most popular and profitable sport the the US, largely because of the exceptional athletic performance of African American men, is racist.
Join the club.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:05 am to Baloo
quote:
And while I don't think the coaching ranks need to exactly match the racial makeup of the players, it would seem that, free of any bias whatsoever in hiring, the ratio would be closer to the makeup of those playing football than the actual makeup of the general population.
well one part of this is getting those guys to go through the ABSOLUTELY GRUELING process of being a coach at a high level
i thought about going into coaching a few years ago, but there is no way i could have made it making no money working 80 hours a week minimum. i think this is the issue you have with a lot of ex-players, especially good ones, regardless of race
i don't think that there is an issue with black former players being denied the opportunity to break into coaching. i just don't think they attempt it in the same numbers that they do attempting to be pro players
quote:
But, taken as a group, I think you would expect there to be more black head coaches.
i just don't think there are that many "name" guys who are out there at this moment. lovie, dungy (if he wanted to come back), and? lovie will get a job if he wants one next year
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:07 am to Golfer
quote:
I'm trying to figure out VOR's argument that an organization that has propelled itself into the most popular and profitable sport the the US, largely because of the exceptional athletic performance of African American men, is racist.
i know the response, and it's something along the lines of exploiting the blacks for entertainment, but rejecting them when they want to move up in the world. that is basically where you have to go with it
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:08 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
But, see, I don't understand why one non-biased racial aberration (the makeup of players) should necessarily be expected to beget another (the racial makeup of coaches).
Because that is the hiring pool. The people "eligible" for the job is not the general population, it is restricted to that "skewed" group of former players.
I think it's evidence of bias, but not proof. I would need far more evidence to make a claim of racial bias, but I think this evidence could be convincing when used in concert with MORE evidence.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:09 am to SlowFlowPro
in the spirit of this thread, Baloo, can you go Nuke Newbomb for the comment on ths page
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:10 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
"Obviously, it's not working the way it should."
said this in another thread on this a couple weeks back, but I'd like for Dungy to expound on how it should work and what changes he'd like to see to get it to work "correctly".
Herm can't help being dramatic with the renaming the rule talk. this guy, lol.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:10 am to Baloo
quote:
I think it's evidence of bias, but not proof. I would need far more evidence to make a claim of racial bias, but I think this evidence could be convincing when used in concert with MORE evidence.
i think your main area would be the barrier to entry for low-level coaching jobs. if there would be a bias, it would be seen in the inability of former players to get those jobs
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:31 am to SlowFlowPro
What hs wouldn't love an ex-pro coaching their team? But, once a guy STARTS coaching hs ball, he gets pigeon-holed as a 'high-school coach', which leads you back to square one. Its hard for a hs coach to break into the college ranks.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:34 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well one part of this is getting those guys to go through the ABSOLUTELY GRUELING process of being a coach at a high level
I feel like this is part of it - how many of the greats have enough want and chest to become a coach after making enough money to retire, and then how many would be good at it.
Think Randy Moss will work 80 hours a week?
I'd have to see the % of minority applicants vs. the % of hires. I'll bet it's higher than most think. At the end of the day, don't you think above all else owners want to win? Do you really think Woody Johnson is going to say "screw it I'm keeping a white WR coach even though none of our WR's can catch worth a shite?"
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:37 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:
quote:
I'm trying to figure out VOR's argument that an organization that has propelled itself into the most popular and profitable sport the the US, largely because of the exceptional athletic performance of African American men, is racist.
Join the club.
Where have I said that the NFL is "racist", per se. I have argued with SFP about the concept of "racism", generally, and whether it is necessarily intentional. In fact, in one of my posts I made a point that I didn't think the GM's or owners were necessarily racist. And most of the black critics of the system have also said they don't think the GM's or owners are necessarily racist.
My point has been that the system, for historical reasons and networking relationships, at times excludes consideration of qualified black candidates. I think that things have improved greatly, by the way.
I also, at some point in the thread, acknowledged that the Rooney Rule results in nothing more than token interviews at times. But the benefit of that is that good black candidates at least start to get noticed, and, perhaps, next time they get a real shot.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:46 am to VOR
Just for the sake of argument - what do you think white ex-coaches would say about the rooney rule if they were telling the truth?
Think Wade Philips, Josh McDaniels and Rich Kotite would say it's not working?
Looking at issues through the prism of race is tired. We have a black president. We have numerous black corporate executives that have excelled.
What time do we stop these protected classes? OR should we expand them?
I think there aren't enough canadian football coaches - and if you ask all the former canadian football coaches they'll tell you the same thing.
Think Wade Philips, Josh McDaniels and Rich Kotite would say it's not working?
Looking at issues through the prism of race is tired. We have a black president. We have numerous black corporate executives that have excelled.
What time do we stop these protected classes? OR should we expand them?
I think there aren't enough canadian football coaches - and if you ask all the former canadian football coaches they'll tell you the same thing.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 10:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
just hate black people who promote the ghetto culture
And what percentage of the AA population do you think fit this description? Particularly in the southeast an urban areas.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:02 am to DelU249
quote:
And what percentage of the AA population do you think fit this description? Particularly in the southeast an urban areas.
Judging on the ignorant hate my black Republican friend gets on his Facebook, I'd say it's a pretty decent amount, probably equal to the white trash percentage.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:18 am to Baloo
quote:
don't think this means any team is racist per se, and you can certainly justify every hiring decision made this offseason. But, taken as a group, I think you would expect there to be more black head coaches
Great post Baloo, all of it.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:20 am to Jcorye1
An equal proportion of their respective demographics or an equal percentage of the total population?
I don't know or pretend to know. I don't have any black friends and in not black so I have zero insight and I don't want to go digging through census data.
I don't know or pretend to know. I don't have any black friends and in not black so I have zero insight and I don't want to go digging through census data.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:30 am to DelU249
quote:
And what percentage of the AA population do you think fit this description?
no idea, and i don't care b/c it's irrelevant
disliking a person b/c of the race they are and disliking a person b/c of a shitty culture they promote or actions they do are COMPLETELY different concepts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:31 am to ironsides
quote:It's already been pointed out that it's not just overt racism.
At the end of the day, don't you think above all else owners want to win? Do you really think Woody Johnson is going to say "screw it I'm keeping a white WR coach even though none of our WR's can catch worth a shite?"
I used the example of weddings between 2 white people vs weddings between 2 black people and the racial makeup of those wedding guests. IT's the same thing here.
And I'll keep saying after every single person says owners will always hire the best guy that will win the most games, multiple solid, reputable media members have it on good authority, that the Dolphins passed on a chance at Mike Tomlin because he is "too hip hop". He isn't remotely hip hop, so what does that tell you?
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:32 am to ironsides
quote:WHat in the world...
I think there aren't enough canadian football coaches - and if you ask all the former canadian football coaches they'll tell you the same thing
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