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Started By
Message
re: Black ex-coaches say NFL's Rooney Rule is broken
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
McDaniels and Kiffin were VERY bold picks, especially Kiffin. Kiffin wasn't even the OC...of a college team
If Kiffin's last name was not Kiffin, he would have had a hell of lot harder time getting that job
1
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:31 pm to VOR
quote:
Please. It doesn't have to be conscious.
so the NFL is possibly racist even though it doesn't have any intention of being racist? what?
quote:
Yep. That's it. No doubt.
listen to your arguments in this thread...hell that one post. now i'm being lectured that racism, an intentional act, may not be a conscious decision. yes...we're being told that we do certain things...even when we have no idea we're doing it (and when the act in question has to be intentional)
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:32 pm to REG861
quote:
If Kiffin's last name was not Kiffin, he would have had a hell of lot harder time getting that job
being involved in those USC offenses was a bigger deal, both in terms of marketability and geography
kiffin was like the 10th choice that year. hell, he wasn't even the first co-OC from USC to get offered that job
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:33 pm to REG861
quote:
If you don't think the Patriots, the Kiffin family , former head coaches, and former star quarterbacks aren't part of 'the network,' you don't have a clue. How many coordinators under Bill Belichick have been in hot demand? Who gives a shite how old they are, McDaniels was next in line. Those weren't bold coaching picks, they were part of the establishment
But, the inherent notion seems to be that there is some sort is sinister force (rather than just natural progression) that is keeping black guys out of the network. How can that be in a SPORT. Who are the black guys being denied entree into 'the network' who are really otherwise clamoring to be a part of it?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:33 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
How are they at a disadvantage? I'm serious.
Because I think a somewhat unknown (and to cut off SFP, I don't mean totally obscure) black assistant will not be viewed in the same way as a white guy in the same position who has worked for well know other white head coaches who are known by the GM or owner. I'm not saying it's overt racism. I'm saying it's an endemic, institutional matter of familiarity and comfort that perhaps just needs a little bit of shaking up.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:35 pm to REG861
quote:you have an excellent point
Serious question. Why is this issue not more pronounced among NBA and MLB coaching ranks?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
listen to your arguments in this thread...hell that one post. now i'm being lectured that racism, an intentional act, may not be a conscious decision. yes...we're being told that we do certain things...even when we have no idea we're doing it (and when the act in question has to be intentional)
If you believe racism necessarily is a conscious point of view or that a racist impact has to be a product of intent, you're not as bright as I thought you were.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:37 pm to VOR
quote:
will not be viewed in the same way as a white guy in the same position who has worked for well know other white head coaches who are known by the GM or owner.
why does race even play a role? that's the link that is tough to understand
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:37 pm to kywildcatfanone
I was listening to Dungy on the NFL Radio Network. He kept saying what these owners need to do.
Bob Kraft is more successful than Tony Dungy could ever even dream of being. I'm pretty sure he knows how to make a product marketable, and the complete moronic attitude that Tony thinks he can tell people like Kraft what to do is hilarious.
I shut it off. I get it, Tony thinks he's a moral compass. It's sad he comes off as a bumbling buffoon.
Bob Kraft is more successful than Tony Dungy could ever even dream of being. I'm pretty sure he knows how to make a product marketable, and the complete moronic attitude that Tony thinks he can tell people like Kraft what to do is hilarious.
I shut it off. I get it, Tony thinks he's a moral compass. It's sad he comes off as a bumbling buffoon.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:37 pm to VOR
quote:
Because I think a somewhat unknown (and to cut off SFP, I don't mean totally obscure) black assistant will not be viewed in the same way as a white guy in the same position who has worked for well know other white head coaches who are known by the GM or owner. I'm not saying it's overt racism. I'm saying it's an endemic, institutional matter of familiarity and comfort that perhaps just needs a little bit of shaking up.
But, you act like this is so obviously occurring. Where, if so?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:38 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
But, the inherent notion seems to be that there is some sort is sinister force (rather than just natural progression) that is keeping black guys out of the network
I don't think that's necessarily the case at all.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:38 pm to VOR
quote:
If you believe racism necessarily is a conscious point of view or that a racist impact has to be a product of intent, you're not as bright as I thought you were.
racism either involves a judgment or discrimination based on race (depending on your definition. my "go to" definition is a judgment made about somebody based solely on race). those are intentional acts
so yes, racisim must be conscious and intentional
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:43 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
How are they at a disadvantage? I'm serious.
Because everyone is racist I guess.
I mean, it's not like these owners are paying young blacks a shitload of money to play football or anything.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:44 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
But, you act like this is so obviously occurring. Where, if so?
I think it's self-evident. I'm not saying there should be a quota or that if certain percentages aren't met, that's indicative of racism . .. necessarily. I am saying objective observation would lead one to conclude that a black coach has to be pretty special to get a leg up in the business. And moreso than a white guy similarly situated. We probably don't disagree as much as you think, frankly. But I do think it's naive to suggest that race doesn't play a role in hiring.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:45 pm to VOR
So, what is keeping black guys out of "the network"?
Surely the NFL must be replete with examples of those who have tried to gain entry, but were denied by this vast unconscious racism of the existing membership. Where are all these guys?
Surely the NFL must be replete with examples of those who have tried to gain entry, but were denied by this vast unconscious racism of the existing membership. Where are all these guys?
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so yes, racisim must be conscious and intentional
You are so fricking wrong on this issue that I'm not going to take the time to educate you.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:47 pm to VOR
quote:
I am saying objective observation would lead one to conclude that a black coach has to be pretty special to get a leg up in the business.
herm edwards
rahim morris
romeo crennell
jim caldwell
none of these guys were special
funny enough, the league was over-saturated with shitty black head coaches from tony dungy's coaching tree. lovie smith is the one exception really
quote:
But I do think it's naive to suggest that race doesn't play a role in hiring.
i just don't see how an owner of a billion dollar money maker would risk so much money out of racial spite
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:48 pm to Jcorye1
quote:'
I shut it off. I get it, Tony thinks he's a moral compass. It's sad he comes off as a bumbling buffoon.
There are certain people who think it has to be about race, and you can't convince them otherwise. It's a waste of time trying, it's too ingrained in em. They are beyond help.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i just don't see how an owner of a billion dollar money maker would risk so much money out of racial spite
I never suggested anything of the kind.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:49 pm to VOR
quote:
You are so fricking wrong on this issue that I'm not going to take the time to educate you.
just because i refuse to adopt/accept an over-expansive view of racism?
racism sucks, but it's been basically eliminated from American society as much as it is possible to eliminate. we're the least racist country on earth. that's awesome. instead of celebrating these facts, people love to expand the definition of "racism" so that people like tony dungy can bitch
i'm sorry, but i detest that line of thinking. it serves only to prevent the natural development of our society
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