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re: Are the Astros rebuilding the right way? I believe so, but this writer doesn't..

Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:46 pm to
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72000 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:46 pm to
Mark Appel has a +6 ERA in 4 starts in high A
Posted by volfan30
Member since Jun 2010
40949 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

Because if they hit in AAA the previous year and hit it well what point is it putting them back in AAA instead of MLB?


The extra year of control. Not like they are trying to win this year so why burn a year? What does it hurt?
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
93702 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:53 pm to
Anthony Boyer, a writer from TCB covers it all and should end debate. He is 100% accurate here.

//thread

quote:

George Springer spent most of 2013 with legitimate issues concerning his hit tool. He put in long, extra hours to address the problem, but ultimately the question between calling him up in, say, August or to keep him in the minors to pursue a 40/40 season, as well as to continue to work on his issues, is a no-brainer to me. You’re talking about promoting him onto a team that had no chance at competing with or without George Springer, when you had outfield options who could use further evaluation in anticipation of a potential Rule 5-driven 40-man roster crunch (which turned out to be nothing.)

I don’t consider his May stats indicative of anything to do with promotion issues. Who’s to say that he’s not doing this well because he stayed in the minors longer to work on his issues, or because he had a full offseason to continue working on them? Plus, the addition of Dexter Fowler this offseason meant a position switch for Springer, who’d never played right field before.

Singleton, on the other hand, had a myriad of off-field issues, culminating in a 50-game suspension for marijuana and an admission of an alcohol problem. 2013 was essentially a lost year for him, and keeping him in the more closed-off environment of Triple-A, where he can be more closely monitored, doesn’t strike me as a bad move. He’s exceptionally young for the level, and two months of success does not erase the question marks off or on the field.

I say this a lot, but you cannot judge prospect promotion by simply looking at statistical benchmarks. There’s always more to the story. I talk to a lot of contacts inside and outside of the organization, watch as much as I can either in person or on MiLB.tv, and pay very close attention to the statistics – and I still don’t have the full story. I think a lot of people love to shout for promotions, but there are real and legitimate reasons not to make them.

That’s great, but those two results aren’t occurring. On a day in, day out basis, the Astros field a lineup where the majority of the players would not start for other teams.

This is a strange thing to say about a team that is 12-13 in the month of May and in the middle of clobbering Kansas City to make it to .500 for the month. In fact, I find the idea that Luhnow is "tanking" to be a wrong-headed one. The Astros weren’t going to sign any number of free agents to make them a competitive team in 2013 (Luhnow’s first full offseason being the 2012/13 offseason), so I don’t know what people think he ought to have done. He traded for Dexter Fowler and signed Scott Feldman who, while not an ace, was a legitimate upgrade from anyone on the projected rotation. The 2013 bullpen was a dumpster fire, so he went out and signed Jesse Crain, Matt Albers, Jerome Williams, and Chad Qualls to address it.

The rotation, by the way, has been a strength this season, despite the only FA acquisition being Feldman. Between in-house options Jarred Cosart and Dallas Keuchel and waiver claim Collin McHugh, the 1-4 spots have been outstanding. The #5 spot, rotating largely between Brad Peacock and Brett Oberholtzer, is still a work in progress, true. But overall, the rotation is much-improved.

The glaring hole at first base and the question marks in left field notwithstanding, the 2014 Houston Astros are a marked improvement over the 2013 Houston Astros, and they’re still young and getting better. While I won’t dispute that signing someone in the offseason would have been nice, they were reportedly among the three final teams in the blind bidding for Jose Abreu, but Jerry Reinsdorf wasn’t going to miss out on him.

Additionally, though Houston is the fourth-largest media market in the U.S., there is currently a real issue with the Comcast deal, and those funds are not exactly rolling in, as CSN Houston is currently in bankruptcy proceedings.

It’s a young team that’s steadily improving, and which is winning as often as it loses this month. As much as I love Drellich, and I think his piece was amazing and well-written and well-sourced and well-researched, but while I acknowledge that maybe there are perception issues around baseball, I really question the criticisms.

Staff Writer - Minor League/Draft
The Crawfish Boxes
LINK
by Anthony Boyer
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161244 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

The extra year of control
which is an issue, why not see if these guys can hit MLB pitching right off the bat? to save a few dollars?

quote:

Not like they are trying to win this year so why burn a year? What does it hurt?

you bring up 2-4 prospects who show they can hit MLB pitching then all you need to add is a few savvy veterans to compete for a wild card berth and then it is a crap shoot for ws imo
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
36603 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

Did Luhnow really have a choice other than a "scorched earth" policy? The cupboards were bare. Plus, he didn't have a Zito/hudson/Mulder trio. That's the part nobody fricking talks about in money ball. Beane is a great GM, but it's not like he isn't without fault or didn't get lucky.


That part always bothered me about that movie.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
36603 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

you bring up 2-4 prospects who show they can hit MLB pitching then all you need to add is a few savvy veterans to compete for a wild card berth and then it is a crap shoot for ws imo


Yeah , sounds pretty easy.
Posted by LSUTIGER in TEXAS
Member since Jan 2008
13608 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:15 pm to
My only beef with the rebuild is it started 3 years too late. The last few of the drayton years were a complete waste chasing one last championship glory before he kicked the bucket


They are doing it right way. Burnt it to the ground, started over. Build for the long term. We'll see if crane will pay the money. I can't imagine him not, but like I said, we'll cross that bridge when we get there...
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
93702 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

The Astros' rebuild situation right now is unique in baseball

But not because of what Luhnow’s doing. It’s unique for the following reasons:

Previous owner Drayton McLane is buddies with Bud Selig, and so was one of only a couple MLB owners to stick strictly to the draft bonus slotting recommendations. Thus you get a club that had one of the worst farm systems in baseball for almost a decade straight (including a 2007 draft in which the highest signed player was a 4th-rounder), giving no pipeline of young talent at a time when everybody else (except the White Sox) were embracing the statistical revolution. The problem was compounded by McLane’s hiring of Purpura (unqualified) and Wade (old-school anti-saber guy) as GM’s during that time period
McLane publicly was trying to sell the team for several years, including two prior attempts. During that time, he was slapping lipstick on a pig through contracts to Carlos Lee, Pedro Feliz, Woody Williams, Jason Jennings, etc etc etc…so the major league team suffered through crap additions while Biggio, Berkman, and Oswalt aged.
Also because of McLane’s intent to sell, he shut down the Venezuelan baseball academy that the Astros established back in the day that yielded Freddy Garcia, Bobby Abreu, Johan Santana, and Carlos Guillen, among other players. So the Astros had absolutely no international presence at a time when again, all the other clubs were ramping up and recognizing the value of IFA’s.
The TV deal was hastily constructed by the previous owner to boost the value of the club prior to the sale. The new owner was given a take-it-or-leave-it deal, with no carriage even possible for 60% of Houston’s residents. Therefore, the Astros are paying millions just to keep CSN afloat, instead of raking in $80 million/year as Forbes erroneously claimed last season
MLB forcing the Astros into the AL as a condition of its sale devalued the franchise at a time when the TV deal was up in the air. So at the worst possible moment in franchise history, they moved to the strongest division in the stronger league, had to manufacture a DH from somewhere, had no farm system at all, an entirely new front office staff (much-needed) on both the baseball and business operations, and no FA’s even wanted to sign with them.
As Anthony alluded to a little, sure the Astros could have tried to shore up the cracks with free agents, but without the young core, the end result would have been 95-loss seasons instead of 110-loss seasons. Financially, that makes no sense.

WHEW!

The only comparison in history I can think of was back in the day when Comiskey was developing players simply to sell them and reap the profits.

LINK /
@CRPerry13



The two writers from TCB completely demolished the writer of this article. Proved everything in that article was bullshite.
Posted by MOT
Member since Jul 2006
27802 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

I dont think they are doing it wrong. I just dont think their prospects are as good as people think

Still hanging on to that huh? Have they cracked the top 20 systems yet in your opinion?

As for the tandem starters, I could be wrong but aren't they on a regular schedule? I don't think they just throw on random days like the quote in the original post makes it sound, and they don't use it for the entire season.
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161244 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

Have they cracked the top 20 systems yet in your opinion?
Doesn't matter, I mean hell a few years ago the Yankees had a top 10 farm system and now it is Top 20
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161244 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

Yeah , sounds pretty easy.

Better than keeping them in AAA and hoping they learn to hit.... look at KC and their system as they've been ranked so high for so long
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
93702 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

None of the pitchers have really impressed me considering their billing.


Who do you have a problem with that hasn't impressed you?

Folty?
Buchanan?
Tropeano?
Wojo?
Shirley?
Smith?
Velasquez?
Hader?
Westwood?

The Astros have a plethora of arms in the system and none of them are "impressive?" Those are a list of guys that I expect to be MLB pitchers and have been pretty successful so far in their minor league careers. For the most part, that'll translate to making it to the show. If half of those guys end up being above average pitchers, I'll be happy.
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161244 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:23 pm to
So out of the 9 maybe 2 ends up being MLB starters and 2 others MLB relievers...


I've always believed MLB starters >>>> prospects
Posted by MOT
Member since Jul 2006
27802 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

They should be bringing the kids up and seeing ho can perform at an MLB level

They've been doing that. It just wasn't the names that the uninformed wanted to see.
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
93702 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

I've always believed MLB starters >>>> prospects


Of course, but you obviously have to start somewhere. So that's 4 out of 9 making it to the big league team.

That's a decent ratio and then you go out and find a FA or two.

Honestly, I don't expect to see that list stay THAT long. Eventually, there are some guys that are going to be trade pieces in the next couple of years.
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
93702 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

They've been doing that. It just wasn't the names that the uninformed wanted to see.


WILL SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE JAKE BUCHANAN A SHOT!!?
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161244 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:29 pm to
who did they bring up this year?
26 year old Marc Krauss?
30 year old Carlos Corporan?
29 year old Jesus Guzman?
28 year old Alex Presley?
25 year old Marin Gonzales?
24 year old L.J. Hoes?
24 year old Robbie Grossman?


Those are the guys they brought up that have at least 50 AB so far this year....


Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161244 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:30 pm to
quote:

That's a decent ratio and then you go out and find a FA or two.
it would be if they gave them a shot... I believe 4 of of those 9 listed end up on a MLB club either with Astros or another club
Posted by MOT
Member since Jul 2006
27802 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

Those are the guys they brought up that have at least 50 AB so far this year....

So your point is based on the first two months of this season? Players that were up prior to this year do not count? Pitchers do not count?
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
93702 posts
Posted on 5/29/14 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

I believe 4 of of those 9 listed end up on a MLB club either with Astros or another club



quote:

Folty?
Buchanan?
Tropeano?
Wojo?

Shirley?
Smith?
Velasquez?
Hader?
Westwood?


At this point, those are the guys I have highest hopes for and I believe will be better than "some" people around here give them credit for...
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