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re: Albert Belle on Mike Trout HOF talk: "I played 12 yrs & my stats are better than his"
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:13 am to Jack Ruby
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:13 am to Jack Ruby
I’ve made this point elsewhere but Albert Belle has a very similar statistical profile to Giancarlo Stanton right now through his age 33 season.
Belle- 381 HRs, 139wRC+, 40.1 bWAR, 41.0 fWAR
Stanton- 402 HRs, 137 wRC+, 44.0bWAR, 41.9 fWAR
Does anybody think Stanton is even a borderline HOFer if he never plays another game? The answer is no, right? So why is there even a debate about Belle?
Belle- 381 HRs, 139wRC+, 40.1 bWAR, 41.0 fWAR
Stanton- 402 HRs, 137 wRC+, 44.0bWAR, 41.9 fWAR
Does anybody think Stanton is even a borderline HOFer if he never plays another game? The answer is no, right? So why is there even a debate about Belle?
0
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:16 am to STEVED00
Let’s see, his behavior while playing. His refusal to show up to be inducted for Cleveland’s Hall of Fame. Arrests for chasing trick or treaters, stalking, DUI, indecent exposure. The guy was an incredible player on the field but in the real world it’s not just about performance on the field. Honestly I have always suspected he’s bipolar.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:19 am to The Seaward
That’s not worth a damn and is not helping his team if he’s not getting 500 plate appearances. I acknowledge the injuries, fully understand that. But I stand by my doubts that this guy is truly driven like the great ones of the past. I hope he proves me wrong. Again I have been an Angels fan since the days they had an actual halo on the crown of their caps.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:21 am to InkStainedWretch
he can retire today and would easily be a 95%+ first ballot vote getter
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:26 am to theunknownknight
Fans struggle with WAR … and again I think it is a flawed metric … because they can’t differentiate between greatness and “who’s better” vs. value, which is what WAR measures. For example, Yadi Molina will be a first ballot Hall of Fame choice. And people will have a cow and go straight to his pedestrian offensive stats, while ignoring his historically elite, Johnny Bench level defense that made him an exceptionally valuable player and helped get him and his teams multiple rings.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:29 am to WestCoastAg
I agree but if he plays 8 or 10 more years and doesn’t match his elite years … people blame the writers for Eddie Mathews and Duke Snider taking so long to get in, but that’s what screwed them, they were shot as elite players early because of injuries but hung on a long time after that.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:34 am to InkStainedWretch
quote:
WAR again doesn’t say who is “better.” You are framing it wrongly.
No. I am not.
The person I was responding to was.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:34 am to InkStainedWretch
quote:which is a ridiculous bar to set for someone. he most likely wont return to the 9+ win player year in year out that he was prior to the pandemic. that doesnt mean he still isnt an elite player. he was on pace for a 6 win season last year. that is literally elite. less than 10 players did that
and doesn’t match his elite years
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:40 am to theunknownknight
So noted and acknowledged, didn’t follow the thread back enough.
I believe in analytics and I think WAR is a valid but flawed stat but it should NEVER be all about the numbers in assessing greatness or who’s better.
I believe in analytics and I think WAR is a valid but flawed stat but it should NEVER be all about the numbers in assessing greatness or who’s better.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:49 am to InkStainedWretch
quote:
Fans struggle with WAR … and again I think it is a flawed metric
It's the #1 metric used by all of the SABR nerds to say player A is better than player B or that this "player" isn't HoF worthy and I just don't understand it.
The poster using WAR to argue against Belle is probably no older than 25 and never saw him play like a lot of US did. If you watched him play and followed his career, you know that he ABSOLUTELY should be in Cooperstown just based on his career alone.
But like I said earlier ITT, him not being in is on him and the way he treated people
This post was edited on 2/2/24 at 11:51 am
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:50 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:you have made this clear
and I just don't understand it.
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:52 am to WestCoastAg
Don't insult my fricking intelligence, I know what WAR is, I just don't understand why it's the end-all-be-all metric by so many when it's as flawed as it is as an individual metric.
This post was edited on 2/2/24 at 11:53 am
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:54 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:remember when you thought the quality of team and lineup you played in impacted your WAR
Don't insult my fricking intelligence, I know what WAR is
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:56 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
He's no Ozzie am I right
Let me guess, you don't think he's a top-3 2B'man?
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:56 am to WestCoastAg
Don't you have a blow-up doll you need to make love to?
Posted on 2/2/24 at 11:58 am to SteelerBravesDawg
remember when you thought 6 WAR was unattainable and that not even mike trout could accumulate that much in a year
Posted on 2/2/24 at 12:04 pm to WestCoastAg
Do you think Ozzie is a top-3 2Bman?
Posted on 2/2/24 at 12:10 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
Do you think Ozzie is a top-3 2Bman?
quote:
WestCoastAg
Thanks for answering. It took you long enough.
Betts, Altuve, Ozzie are my top-3.
This post was edited on 2/2/24 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 2/2/24 at 12:14 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
i would not argue against ozzie being considered a top 3 2nd baseman. i think hes one of two or so who can claim 3rd behind semien and mookie. i personally would say altuve is 3rd but he is in the group of players so i would be fine with calling him top 3
i hope one day you find some time to understand WAR
i hope one day you find some time to understand WAR
This post was edited on 2/2/24 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 2/2/24 at 12:14 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
holy shite you are so awesome
remember when you said ozzie was 100% on a hall of fame career trajectory
This post was edited on 2/2/24 at 12:16 pm
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