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re: AL Cy young award David Price or Justin Verlander?
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:11 am to PortCityTiger24
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:11 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
Posted by PortCityTiger24 Verlander lost the AL home field advantage for the World Series. Give it to Price.
Yep! I am not sure if the voters will take that into account but Verlander was awful in the all star game.
0
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:26 am to Baloo
quote:
I don't know. Maybe that Price has a slightly lower ERA while Verlander has a slight advantage in strikeouts/9. Price has a lowe walk rate/9 and both have similar HR rates. Verlander's entire advntage in "value" stats is because Comerica is rated as a hitter's park, which I personally think is inaccurate. Comerica used to be an extreme pitcher's park, and now suddenly it's an above average hitter's park? Something is fishy with Comerica's park factors and I'm not going to rate Verlander higher solely because of park factors which have fluctuated wildly.
Forget park factor's then its still not close. The couple hundreths of a difference in ERA is more than made up for buy the 27 more innings Verlander has pitched. On top of that the Ray's fielding>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tiger's all time shitty fielding.
This post was edited on 10/3/12 at 9:27 am
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:33 am to VerlanderBEAST
Let me get this straight, you think that two pitchers with near identical ERA's, K rates, BB rates, and HR rates are wildly different and totally incomparable because of 27 innings pitched?
Yeah, I'm not buying that. And the "bad fielding" argument actually helps Verlander given how many unearned runs he allowed. Imagine if we just had RA instead of ERA.
Verlander: 3.06
Price: 2.69
Verlander's already gotten a massive bonus for crappy defense. You want me to give him another one? Price is actually a lot better at run prevention.
Yeah, I'm not buying that. And the "bad fielding" argument actually helps Verlander given how many unearned runs he allowed. Imagine if we just had RA instead of ERA.
Verlander: 3.06
Price: 2.69
Verlander's already gotten a massive bonus for crappy defense. You want me to give him another one? Price is actually a lot better at run prevention.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:47 am to Baloo
quote:
Let me get this straight, you think that two pitchers with near identical ERA's, K rates, BB rates, and HR rates are wildly different and totally incomparable because of 27 innings pitched?
Yeah, I'm not buying that. And the "bad fielding" argument actually helps Verlander given how many unearned runs he allowed. Imagine if we just had RA instead of ERA.
Verlander: 3.06
Price: 2.69
Verlander's already gotten a massive bonus for crappy defense. You want me to give him another one? Price is actually a lot better at run prevention.
Perfectly put. They are still very close, but to say Verlander is head and shoulders better than Price is just ignorant.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:49 am to PortCityTiger24
Verlander > Price
Posted on 10/3/12 at 9:54 am to nugget
quote:
Perfectly put. They are still very close, but to say Verlander is head and shoulders better than Price is just ignorant.
Consider the source.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:05 am to Baloo
quote:
Let me get this straight, you think that two pitchers with near identical ERA's, K rates, BB rates, and HR rates are wildly different and totally incomparable because of 27 innings pitched?
Yeah, I'm not buying that. And the "bad fielding" argument actually helps Verlander given how many unearned runs he allowed. Imagine if we just had RA instead of ERA.
Verlander: 3.06
Price: 2.69
Verlander's already gotten a massive bonus for crappy defense. You want me to give him another one? Price is actually a lot better at run prevention.
Bad fielding is far more than just errors. And the Tiger's fielding isn't bad its all time awful. But even without the fielding its still not close just because as I said the couple hundreths difference in ERA is more than made up by the 25+ innings pitched.
Its not close in any objective way
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:10 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Its not close in any objective way
Other than the objective measures I posted: ERA, RA, K/9, BB/9, HR/9, and BB/K ratio. So it's close in every objective way, honestly.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:15 am to Baloo
quote:
Other than the objective measures I posted: ERA, RA, K/9, BB/9, HR/9, and BB/K ratio. So it's close in every objective way, honestly.
Verlander has a better WHIP, 27 more innings, doing it in a tougher ballpark and an all time crap defense. Its not close.
This post was edited on 10/3/12 at 10:16 am
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:21 am to Baloo
BTW - Defensive Efficiency rates how often a defense turns a batted ball in play (not a home run) into an out.
TB: 72.2%
DET: 69.2%
But let's actually do the math when their pitching. Verlander had 476 non-K outs. He let up 173 non-HR hits. that means 476/(476+173) = 73.3%. His defense converted 73.3% of balls in play into outs.
Price? Glad you asked. 428 non-K outs and 157 non-HR hits allowed. That's 428/((428+157) = 73.1%. His defense actually converted LESS balls in play into outs.
I actually wasn't expecting that result. I though Price would have a marginal yet insignificant advantage. Instead, the defense argument cuts against Verlander. His defense played better than Price's. Wow. Didn't see that coming.
TB: 72.2%
DET: 69.2%
But let's actually do the math when their pitching. Verlander had 476 non-K outs. He let up 173 non-HR hits. that means 476/(476+173) = 73.3%. His defense converted 73.3% of balls in play into outs.
Price? Glad you asked. 428 non-K outs and 157 non-HR hits allowed. That's 428/((428+157) = 73.1%. His defense actually converted LESS balls in play into outs.
I actually wasn't expecting that result. I though Price would have a marginal yet insignificant advantage. Instead, the defense argument cuts against Verlander. His defense played better than Price's. Wow. Didn't see that coming.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:31 am to Baloo
quote:
I actually wasn't expecting that result. I though Price would have a marginal yet insignificant advantage. Instead, the defense argument cuts against Verlander. His defense played better than Price's. Wow. Didn't see that coming.
Thats a stat that assumes all balls in play are equal... when in reality they aren't. The Tigers turns less double plays than anybody in baseball due to 3 stiffs at 1b 3b and SS. They give up many extra bases and sacflies due to a terrible outfield who baserunners aren't afraid of.
You really can't comprehend how bad they are unless you have been watching all year.
This post was edited on 10/3/12 at 10:32 am
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:31 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Its not close.
You should stop using this phrase.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:31 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Verlander has a better WHIP, 27 more innings, doing it in a tougher ballpark and an all time crap defense. Its not close.
Price won this game if I recall.
Rays led the league in errors, Rays had no fricking offense all year. He lost three games (2-0, 1-0 and 3-2) because of that. And yea, he got some run support in his 20 wins, but to say it's not even close...
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:37 am to Srbtiger06
quote:
You should stop using this phrase.
I use hyperbole sometimes but this isn't one of them.... its not close.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 10:58 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
its not close.
ok
Posted on 10/3/12 at 12:51 pm to Srbtiger06
Price all the way. The guy would have many more wins if the Rays had any offense at all. The guy has been lights out all year, he deserves it.
Posted on 10/3/12 at 1:23 pm to bgator85
Also, if you look at his loses, there was only two where he was chased from the game and the others were close loses. He was the most consistent pitcher of the two.
This post was edited on 10/3/12 at 1:30 pm
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