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re: A current all-NBA team would wreck the dream team
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:05 pm to Dale Murphy
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:05 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:
But you can't split the Dream Team down the middle and then pick the 5 best current guys and say Game On!!
Ok, then switch Bird with Magic and there is your 1992 starting 5. My point was that the white team in the scrimmage was basically the starters sans Magic.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:09 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
It's not really that important in basketball.
youre telling me strength, nutrition, and conditioning have nothing to do with being an elite basketball player?
were you in the HS band or something?
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:10 pm to rocket31
quote:
well, of course, but they didnt have access to the resources we have now so...?
so you can't say past greats (in some cases, not all) couldn't compete today, because if they were, they would have access to the same knowledge.
On the track example, i have no problem saying Usain Bolt is best and all things being equal he probably bests Carl Lewis even if Lewis grew up at the same time, but don't tell me Lewis couldn't beat HS kids or even that he wouldn't make the US team cause he would.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:11 pm to Tigerfan56
quote:
He also averages 8 APG. KD has missed about half the year in case you were wondering. Should the Thunder have Dion Waiters as their primary scorer?
he is scoring 27 puts a game at .437% shooting.
Thats 87th in the league
He takes more shots than anyone else in the top 40 scorers.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:12 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
so you can't say past greats (in some cases, not all) couldn't compete today, because if they were, they would have access to the same knowledge
thats an entirely different argument.
but yes of course if everyone grew up in the same socialization bubble, theyd be comparable to one another...
unfortunately for the 80s and 90s ballers, strength and conditioning was just in its infancy stages.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:13 pm to Baloo
quote:
But teams in the 90s were far more prone to cheating, and dirty play.
the 90's was clean compared to the 70's. in the 70's the NBA was close to becoming like the NHL. And i do agree with you that getting rid of goons is a good thing, but watching a guy like Harden drive the lane, he would have had his head taken off .
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:14 pm to rocket31
Nutrition and conditioning more than strength. What did Kevin Durant bench at the combine that had everyone up in arms? Zero I think.
You are telling me Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Barkley, David Robinson, Pippen, etc weren't in shape? Those guys could go all day.
You're telling me 92' Shaq wouldn't own every center in the game today? Think he had access to the same info they have today? Patrick Ewing and his broad-arse shoulders? C'mon.
It's basketball. And really isn't that long ago. These guys played in the NBA with guys who are still playing.
You are telling me Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Barkley, David Robinson, Pippen, etc weren't in shape? Those guys could go all day.
You're telling me 92' Shaq wouldn't own every center in the game today? Think he had access to the same info they have today? Patrick Ewing and his broad-arse shoulders? C'mon.
It's basketball. And really isn't that long ago. These guys played in the NBA with guys who are still playing.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:15 pm to slackster
quote:
Vladan Alanovic 6-3 179
Franjo Arapovic 6-11 265
Danko Cvjeticanin 6-6 198
Alan Gregov 6-3 192
Arijan Komazec 6-7 216
Toni Kukoc 6-9 192
Aramis Naglic 6-8 234
Velimir Perasovic 6-5 181
Drazen Petrovic 6-6 196
Dino Radja 6-11 231
Zan Tabak 7-0 258
Stojko Vrankovic 7-1 254
This is the Croatian roster that lost to the Dream Team by 33 and then 32 in the Finals. They once led 25-23 in the 1st half of the Finals.
If that team can stay within 33, then I like my chances with the 2015 squad.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:18 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You are telling me Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Barkley, David Robinson, Pippen, etc weren't in shape? Those guys could go all day
sure, those guys could hang, but as a whole the players in that era do not even compare to todays athletes.
this 30 second clip illustrates it beautifully...(ignore the flop nonsense, and just watch the players jump and defend. not to mention half the players look like skeletons - its comical really)
LINK
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:21 pm to rocket31
quote:
but yes of course if everyone grew up in the same socialization bubble, theyd be comparable to one another..
you are one of the exceptions to actually admit this
quote:
unfortunately for the 80s and 90s ballers, strength and conditioning was just in its infancy stages.
the biggest benefit to this is i think careers will last longer and that now you have more really good players and hence an overall better league, but the top guys its more or less a wash. LeBron is an all timer but a guy like Westbrook is great, but I'd still take Magic or even Isiah at their peaks over him at his.
to tie back to the OP, with the 92 team, you did have key guys, like Bird and Magic that were past their primes, but had to be included because it was the first time using pros. Laetner was just an add to the crowd that thought the world would end if we used NBA players. Today is deeper so a team of all stars to today, all in their prime probably does beat the 92 teams of guys, some of which were past their primes.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:24 pm to H-Town Tiger
Yeah, the 70s were outright war. Guys would be fighting all the damn time. That would never ever happen these days, in any sport. And let's be honest, that is largely a positive development.
I don't like the argument that the Past is always Better, nor do I like the Present is Always Improving. Both are false paradigms. I do think athletics largely improved as it got more codified and professional, until about the 1980s (baseball excepted) when the quality of play/athlete has largely plateaued.
Eras now aren't better or worse, they are different. We've moved more and more in each of team sports to allow talented playmakers create. I think this is largely a positive development, but it also means that if we transported a 2014 athlete back to 1990, they'd be shocked at how little space they would have and how many downright illegal tactics would be not only allowed, but were regular occurances. Also, truly talented athletes would adjust their game for the era. Jordan and Magic bulked up considerably because that was the game. Jordan didn't really work on a jump shot until late in his career, when A) his body started to fail but B) the style of play made that feasible.
If LeBron played in 1992, he'd still be great, but he'd be a different player. He'd adjust his game for the era. If Jordan played now, same thing. And some players were great simply because of their era. Bill Laimbeer could not play in the NBA today. I'm not sure Kyle Korver could back in 1992. But a guy like Billy Owens is probably cursing his bad timing.
I don't like the argument that the Past is always Better, nor do I like the Present is Always Improving. Both are false paradigms. I do think athletics largely improved as it got more codified and professional, until about the 1980s (baseball excepted) when the quality of play/athlete has largely plateaued.
Eras now aren't better or worse, they are different. We've moved more and more in each of team sports to allow talented playmakers create. I think this is largely a positive development, but it also means that if we transported a 2014 athlete back to 1990, they'd be shocked at how little space they would have and how many downright illegal tactics would be not only allowed, but were regular occurances. Also, truly talented athletes would adjust their game for the era. Jordan and Magic bulked up considerably because that was the game. Jordan didn't really work on a jump shot until late in his career, when A) his body started to fail but B) the style of play made that feasible.
If LeBron played in 1992, he'd still be great, but he'd be a different player. He'd adjust his game for the era. If Jordan played now, same thing. And some players were great simply because of their era. Bill Laimbeer could not play in the NBA today. I'm not sure Kyle Korver could back in 1992. But a guy like Billy Owens is probably cursing his bad timing.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:25 pm to rocket31
quote:
those guys could hang, but as a whole the players in that era do not even compare to todays athletes.
ding, its depth that's way better, not necessarily the guys at the top.
(BTW that's the same thing that puts the SEC over other conferences that i don't think most SEC fans fail to appreciate)
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:32 pm to rocket31
Which player on the dream team were weak skeletons?
I'm not denying the advances in information.
But great basketball players are born(athletically) and skilled(via practice), not built in a weight room.
shite a guy like Kobe spans both eras. He's always been a great player
I'm not denying the advances in information.
But great basketball players are born(athletically) and skilled(via practice), not built in a weight room.
shite a guy like Kobe spans both eras. He's always been a great player
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:40 pm to Lester Earl
I'm an old guy. I think a current all-NBA team would beat the 92 dream team but I think "wreck" is a bit strong. I'm not one of these guys who fails to appreciate athletic improvement over time but some of you dudes are showing your age by acting like 1992 was a century ago or something. There's a gap, but hell, f'n Tim Duncan entered the NBA in 1997 for crying out loud.
Oh, and for the dude who claimed that there are high school kids running faster than Carl Lewis.........um, Carl's record was 9.86 in the 100m. Try again.
Oh, and for the dude who claimed that there are high school kids running faster than Carl Lewis.........um, Carl's record was 9.86 in the 100m. Try again.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:42 pm to ShortyRob
I think It would be close, but only because of 2 players on the current team: Lebron and durant.
Otherwise top to bottom Dream Team trumps
Otherwise top to bottom Dream Team trumps
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:42 pm to Lester Earl
Ya thats my fav part...they act like only big pepeople have been born since this generation
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:46 pm to fightingtiger2335
Yea I mean that stuff is important. But players are built in the gym; the basketball gym
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:47 pm to Lester Earl
Also this new generation criminally under estimates john Stockton. I guess cause hes white
Posted on 3/6/15 at 12:48 pm to slackster
First off, they lost by 33. So, it's not like the Dream Team barely eked out a win. But there is a tendency to underrate international teams from that era. Those guys had no real avenue to make it to the NBA.
Petrovic didn't start in the NBA until he was 27. He average over 20 PPG, when finally given a shot. Kukoc went 15.5/5.5 in his first full season in Chicago. Dino Rada went 15.1 PPG and 7.2 RPG in his one full post-Olympics season in the NBA. These guys were good enough to play in the NBA, they just weren't able to until late in their careers. They weren't an All-Star team by any means, but the best players on the Croatian team was good enough to play in the NBA, when given a shot.
Petrovic didn't start in the NBA until he was 27. He average over 20 PPG, when finally given a shot. Kukoc went 15.5/5.5 in his first full season in Chicago. Dino Rada went 15.1 PPG and 7.2 RPG in his one full post-Olympics season in the NBA. These guys were good enough to play in the NBA, they just weren't able to until late in their careers. They weren't an All-Star team by any means, but the best players on the Croatian team was good enough to play in the NBA, when given a shot.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:01 pm to Lester Earl
I really think ppl are selling a lot of the Dream Team short as to where they were athletically in 92. yeah, Magic and Larry were pretty much done (and were never great athletes really), but guys like Robinson, Pippen and Malone were in/ just hitting their athletic primes. Jordan wasn't doing as much "air" stuff, but 92 was probably the best intersection of his athleticism and jump shot. Ewing, Barkley and Clyde weren't slouches either.
as far as depth goes, you're only really gonna have to play 9-10 guys realistically. tell Bird and Laettner they're the odd men out, and pick your spots/ matchups with Magic and Mullin. wreck that, whippersnappers!
as far as depth goes, you're only really gonna have to play 9-10 guys realistically. tell Bird and Laettner they're the odd men out, and pick your spots/ matchups with Magic and Mullin. wreck that, whippersnappers!
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