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Money Talk Lawyers or Accountants Who Work With Legal Firms
Posted on 8/16/16 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 8/16/16 at 6:07 pm
I'm potentially going to be coming into some bookkeeping gigs for a couple of young attorneys.
I'd like to do some research on unique situations to legal accounting. Does anyone have any recommendations on books or articles that would be helpful discussing best practices or situations like trust accounting that aren't as common in other industries?
I'd like to do some research on unique situations to legal accounting. Does anyone have any recommendations on books or articles that would be helpful discussing best practices or situations like trust accounting that aren't as common in other industries?
Posted on 8/16/16 at 7:56 pm to SLafourche07
The biggest thing is not comingling the trust funds with the firm funds. Have totally seperate checking accounts and good policies on when fees are earned and transferred.
Also have good controls on billing and collections.
Lastly the state bar occasionally wants to see reconciliations of the trust account.
Also have good controls on billing and collections.
Lastly the state bar occasionally wants to see reconciliations of the trust account.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 9:48 pm to LSUFanHouston
Thanks for the info.
I assume it is okay to only have one trust account and I just track who paid you what and how much you have earned from who. Or do you need to keep each client's funds in separate accounts?
I assume it is okay to only have one trust account and I just track who paid you what and how much you have earned from who. Or do you need to keep each client's funds in separate accounts?
Posted on 8/16/16 at 9:57 pm to SLafourche07
One trust account....it is designated as such and specially handled by the bank. Attny quotes a client X price (work plus filing fees, etc), client pays, money goes into trust account. Attny draws money from trust account as work progresses, filing fees incurred, and so on. Do study up on this....many young (or less bright, or poorly trained) lawyers screw this up.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 9:43 am to hungryone
Speaking as an attorney, commingling funds is basically the ethics boogeyman. It's the quickest way to get yourself disbarred. You definitely want to make sure you understand the requirements.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 10:07 am to SLafourche07
All the above is correct. another tricky issue is unique billable arrangements such as flat fees. These are becoming much more common in a variety of engagements. Different states vary as to whether a fee is earned upon reciept or earned as the representation progresses. Lawyers are not often aware of these issues.
Unfortunately I don't have any books or articles to recc. Though there was a recent ethics opinion out of Ohio that discussed this issue.
Unfortunately I don't have any books or articles to recc. Though there was a recent ethics opinion out of Ohio that discussed this issue.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 12:48 pm to SLafourche07
Not to be Debbie Downer, but if you didn't even know whether there were any "unique situations to legal accounting," I'm not sure you should be offering yourself as a bookkeeper to law firms. You need to do a lot of reading and talk to some professionals in the field before you take on these gigs.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 2:02 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
if you didn't even know whether there were any "unique situations to legal accounting,"
Where did I say this?
Thanks for the input.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 2:05 pm to SLafourche07
I hope for your sake you are certified. And if you are, I'm pretty sure you will be able to handle most, if not all situations fairly easily. If the need arises, consult your peers. Plus, if you are certified, you know you can find anything you need through AICPA pronouncements. Good luck.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 2:11 pm to SLafourche07
If I were you, I'd call up the Bar association and ask if they have any resources for you. The posters before me are right in that commingling is the fastest way to disbarment, so the Bar does offer resources to help attorneys navigate their obligations when it comes to accounting.
Posted on 8/17/16 at 2:23 pm to AmeriKop45
quote:
AmeriKop45
I'm certified.
Yeah, I'm not concerned about the mechanics of the actual bookkeeping. I just wanted to see if anyone had any recommendations on literature that might point out any areas that should be looked at a little more carefully (like trust accounting).
quote:
boosie
Thanks for the heads up on the Bar.
Posted on 8/18/16 at 12:20 pm to SLafourche07
There's no need to get snippy with me. I've been on a state bar "task force" related to attorney discipline and I would say that accounting issues are the #2 reason that lawyers get in trouble. (#1 is just ghosting, disappearing, and not telling clients. This happens far more often than you'd expect).
And the scary part, from our perspective, is that "I didn't know it was happening" is no defense. There was a case not long ago where a law office admin screwed up some accounting, unbeknownst to her boss. As soon as the lawyer found out he immediately took money out of his personal checking account to cover it - end result was the client was unaffected. But the lawyer was disciplined anyway. It's not that the rules are that uniquely complicated, but there's no materiality requirement and no intent requirement. So you can get called on the carpet even for a minor, unintentional error.
And the scary part, from our perspective, is that "I didn't know it was happening" is no defense. There was a case not long ago where a law office admin screwed up some accounting, unbeknownst to her boss. As soon as the lawyer found out he immediately took money out of his personal checking account to cover it - end result was the client was unaffected. But the lawyer was disciplined anyway. It's not that the rules are that uniquely complicated, but there's no materiality requirement and no intent requirement. So you can get called on the carpet even for a minor, unintentional error.
Posted on 8/18/16 at 12:23 pm to Cold Cous Cous
I think him just starting this thread indicates he understood there were special considerations with law firm accounting.
Posted on 8/18/16 at 3:41 pm to SLafourche07
as a young lawyer myself, i can tell you that i would be horrified if i knew that the guy i just gave my books too was on tigerdroppings asking for advice.
Posted on 8/18/16 at 4:46 pm to theOG
Why? Because I don't inherently know the nuances of every industries' accounting procedures, or because I'm asking for reading recommendations on a message board where I know there are numerous attorneys and accountants?
This thread isn't the only reading or research I'm doing, but if a thread that took a minute to post points me toward some good resources then I think it was worth it.
This thread isn't the only reading or research I'm doing, but if a thread that took a minute to post points me toward some good resources then I think it was worth it.
Posted on 8/18/16 at 7:00 pm to SLafourche07
Articles on this subject appear from time to time in the Bar publication.
Also, ethics opinions on the subject.
Also, ethics opinions on the subject.
This post was edited on 8/18/16 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 8/18/16 at 10:14 pm to SLafourche07
I would shop around banks as well. I would think they could offer solutions to ensure funds are separated into different accounts or subaccounts with stricter controls, particularly around withdrawals.
Posted on 8/19/16 at 10:20 am to theOG
quote:
s a young lawyer myself, i can tell you that i would be horrified if i knew that the guy i just gave my books too was on tigerdroppings asking for advice.
What, we don't know what we are doing? =)
Look, I have a number of CPAs in various states that I am friends with, either on a personal and/or professional level. No CPA knows everything about everything, and we always pick up the phone / send an e-mail to others asking for help and advice on dealing with a particular situation. This is especially true for state tax issues.
I was able to resolve a $17,000 issue with a non-resident California return by calling a CA CPA I know and taking to her for 10 minutes, asking how they handle situations like this in CA, and then doing the same thing.
There is no shame whatsoever in admitting what you don't know and then trying to learn it.
Posted on 8/19/16 at 10:27 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Look, I have a number of CPAs in various states that I am friends with, either on a personal and/or professional level. No CPA knows everything about everything, and we always pick up the phone / send an e-mail to others asking for help and advice on dealing with a particular situation. This is especially true for state tax issues.
which is also what young lawyers are doing and should be doing.
Posted on 8/19/16 at 2:02 pm to SLafourche07
I'd much rather hire the guy that knows that he doesn't know it all as opposed to one of those people that knows every fricking thing about every fricking thing.
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