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re: Forecast when the Fed Reserve will increase interest rates again & how often?

Posted on 2/11/16 at 8:27 am to
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 8:27 am to
Sweden implemented negative rates over a year ago. Japan just went to negative rates this week.

In simplest terms, "negative rates" means the country's central bank charges interest on deposits that banks have in the central bank rather than paying interest to those banks for their deposits.

For example, in the U.S. the Federal Reserve pays banks an annual interest rate of 0.50% on the "excess reserves" (reserves over the required reserves which the bank must have in the Fed) while in Japan now their central bank charges an interest rate on bank reserves.

It's sort of a sign of desperation on the central bank's part to jump start more lending by banks.
Posted by XanderCrews
Member since Mar 2009
774 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 8:31 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/21/21 at 10:11 am
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 8:38 am to
Both the bond market and the stock market are now predicting the U.S. is going to have a recession this year.

The Fed generally does not raise interest rates when a recession is on the horizon.
This post was edited on 2/11/16 at 8:43 am
Posted by XanderCrews
Member since Mar 2009
774 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 8:51 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/21/21 at 10:31 am
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 9:15 am to
True.

It's becoming the consensus belief that the Fed had talked itself into a corner by talking about raising rates for so long (over a year and a half) that it was losing credibility so it raised rates in mid-December as some kind of "shite or get off the pot" statement.

Even yesterday in Fed Chairwoman Yellen's statement to congress she reiterated that the Fed's intentions are to raise rates again "gradually" as the "data indicates."

IMO, she's bluffing.....
Posted by HYDRebs
Houston
Member since Sep 2014
1241 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 9:26 am to
Even with all of the doom and gloom forecasts, I believe the fed still pushes to try and raise rates 2 times this year. Once in the summer and once in december. They are too worried about what stagnent rates will do to the economy long term if they leave them where they are.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 9:28 am to
You may be right, and your prediction is almost exactly what I originally predicted the my first post.

But if there is a recession in the U.S. and the Fed raises rates anyway, there will be political hell to pay.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10230 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 9:33 am to
Hopefully timed to eliminate any chance of a liberal taking the White House.
Posted by Shankopotomus
Social Distanced
Member since Feb 2009
21057 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 12:38 pm to
This is exactly why I think things will get strange...The Fed may want to do one thing...and there will be hardcore political pressure to do another

Maybe this is why we appreciate that The Fed is supposedly neutral and unimpeded by political will?
Posted by LSUwag
Florida man
Member since Jan 2007
17319 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 12:47 pm to
They won't do much until January 2017. The day Trump (or any other Republican) takes office they will raise the hell out of it.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10230 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 4:01 pm to
Supposedly is the key word to me.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4101 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 9:22 pm to
quote:

I'm in the minority, but she is the wrong person for the job, and the Fed has made numerous blunders in recent years. Her best work in my opinion was during her fairly short gig at CBO.


I would have been content to see her stay with her comrades at UC Berkley.

Can you imagine the shape we'd still be in if this mumbling lunchbox had been Fed Chair during the financial crisis?!
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10230 posts
Posted on 2/11/16 at 9:32 pm to
It's one of my issues with her. She's learned well during her many years as a professional student/employee of higher education. That's how I took some of her comments yesterday with respect to answering questions. Enlightened, elitist, unashamedly liberal. I have no issue with the statistics she cited.

Having said this, during the crisis her response would have been 0% interest. She's a dove, and an admitted Keynesian. Well documented. And sometimes vocal about it at inappropriate times given her job. She has toned that down though. Probably didn't want to face Republican Senators again.

What would have been the most interesting is between the various departments, if they allowed the one big one to go down, and if not them, who? And what her input would have been. That would be movie material to me.

There's some very interesting reading penned by some in the room during that period. I'd encourage you to read it, although it gets pretty esoteric at times for a guy like me.
Posted by Bernie_Madoff
Jail
Member since Feb 2016
171 posts
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:09 am to
I think it was you who made a comment on this in the thread about Yellen's committee meeting.

The left wants her to be as accommodating as possible and the committee members made that point clear. Thank God the Fed is an independent entity. If congress ever gets oversight it would open up the flood gates. I have recently changed my stance on this issue.

I think Yellen is intelligent, but has lost her credibility over the past 2 years. If she drops the rate, why would any market participant listen to forward guidance? I also wonder how much political influence actually affects (maybe clouds) her decision making.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10230 posts
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:27 am to
How can you call the Fed. independent in one sentence, and question whether politics clouds her decisions in another sentence? Not trying to be a jerk, but you really make my point for me.
Posted by Bernie_Madoff
Jail
Member since Feb 2016
171 posts
Posted on 2/12/16 at 10:26 am to
quote:

How can you call the Fed. independent in one sentence, and question whether politics clouds her decisions in another sentence?


Political influence does not imply control. I was stating that I am glad there is no congressional oversight and the rate decisions are not decided by congress.

If the Fed is questioning lowering FF back down to near 0 or even negative it would leave me no doubt that her decisions are affected by politics. Yesterday she was asked about negative rates. She said they "would consider it." I think she said this to please those members of the committee and telling them what they want to hear, not because they actually are considering negative rates.



Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 2/12/16 at 10:44 am to
quote:

I think she said this to please those members of the committee and telling them what they want to hear, not because they actually are considering negative rates.
This.

She even went on to say when the Fed analyzed negative rate possibilities in 2010 they concluded it would hurt and not help the economy so they dismissed the idea.

ETA: She literally schooled the senate committee yesterday on how a negative Fed funds rate would drive up the interest rates on mortgages and intermediate term treasury securities because the Fed would have to drastically shrink its balance sheet by selling huge amounts of its CMO's. That would slow housing purchases and increase interest expense for the federal government on its auctions.

By the look on the faces of the senators, they didn't understand a word she was saying at that point.

In her prepared statement prior to the question period she said the Fed anticipates continuing to increase rates "at a measured pace."
This post was edited on 2/12/16 at 10:52 am
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 2/12/16 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

The Fed has painted themselves into a corner. Traditionally raising rates is a tool to fight inflation.

I believe there is an internal interest rate for a normal functioning economy. When it gets too hot, raise rates, when it gets too cool, lower them.

But because the Fed left the rates low for so long, I think it has effectively changed that internal rate. The whole mother's milk thing.

Interest rates were left so low for essentially 7 years. That's basically about the time of a typical economic cycle.

Our economy is by no means booming. Thus, raising rates will choke down growth. We don't really have any room to lower them, either.

I can't predict what the fed will do with any accuracy, because of the corner they are in. If I have to guess, I'll say no raises until after the fall elections.

As to the question of influence, I think if there was no politicial influence, rates would have gone up long before now.


This is similar to my yo-yo theory of ZIRP that I have often spewed here--i.e., that ZIRP maintained can turn into a Japanese-style trap, such that every time the FOMC tries to raise rates, the little swoon that follows makes then yo-yo right back to where they started. The abnormally low interest rates causes (in part) the anemic growth, which in turn fosters more abnormally low interest rates--the infamous vicious cycle.

I am on record here for mostly two things about this situation, one theoretical and one practical. The theoretical part is about using direct cash printing by the U.S. Treasury, rather than the Fed banking system, to promote healthy consumer price inflation. The practical part is about how I supported Bernanke's monetary policy from 2008 to the winter of 2010-2011, but was a critic of ZIRP thereafter--not because I was or am an inflation hawk. I'm really not. It's because I am adamant about spreading the message that ZIRP is harmful to the wider economy in and of itself.

Ideally (i.e., when dramatic asset price collapses and deflationary spirals are not serious risks), we should pursue gradually deflationary monetary policy, like the U.S. experienced near the end of the 19th century. This is the standard Milton Friedman position (as is, by the way, the direct printing of money idea, and also, the notion that ideally we shouldn't have a central bank at all).

Practically speaking, however, the FOMC is constrained by law and tradition to pursue moderate consumer price inflation and lower unemployment, when the economically optimal monetary strategy would be to allow for short-term deflation and macroeconomic recession. It's an unfortunate situation, but you can't blame the people who are on the FOMC for it.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 2/12/16 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

You may be right, and your prediction is almost exactly what I originally predicted the my first post.

But if there is a recession in the U.S. and the Fed raises rates anyway, there will be political hell to pay.


Exactly. I am thinking they will likely reverse their December 16 action to lower rates, and leave them back at pre-December levels for most of the remainder of the year.

I would go ahead and predict one more late rise sometime in the 4Q of 2016, but it might be that the Fed finds itself fighting a 3-headed monster: consumer price deflation, a recessionary spike in unemployment, and an ever-strengthening dollar in the face of NIRP from other countries (such as Sweden, as you mentioned above).
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:13 am to
quote:

market valuations are also increasing
Nope. Market valuations as measured by trailing P/E has decreased from 20.44 down to 15.25 for the forward P/E on the S&P500 over the last 12 months.
quote:

Inflation, debt levels, interest rates....What does this mean for investors??????????
The same as it always has, well managed companies will grow earnings, there will be market volatility, some new highs will be set as well as some new lows, some companies will go bankrupt, there will be some spectacular new start-up companies with IPO's, there will be mergers and acquisitions and 20 years from now the stock market will be higher than it is now, probably double or even triple than what it is now.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 9:31 am
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