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Started By
Message
$9,999
Posted on 2/11/17 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 2/11/17 at 2:14 pm
I have an ongoing debate with a friend about how much cash you can deposit without being flagged. I say the threshold is $10,000.00. I happened to be in my neighborhood Chase branch this morning and quizzed one of the officers nearby. I offered these 2 hypotheticals...
Hypothetical #1) I come into the bank with $9,999 in green cash and a corresponding deposit slip and push it to the teller. What happens? Her reply: We put the cash in your account and give you a receipt.
Hypothetical #2) Same as #1, except I add $1 to the amount. What happens? Her reply: We fill out a report and the transaction is flagged, we deposit the money in your account and give you a receipt. But I wouldn't do the $9,999 deposit either because we look at that too. They might not like it.
My next question to her was (respectfully), "Who is it that doesn't like it and why don't they like it?" She never could come up with a straight answer. The only thing she could offer was that I wanted to stay away from patterns that might look suspicious. BTW, I do understand that the purpose of the $10k flag is to detect money laundering, so no lectures on that.
That still left a question in my mind. If less than $10k is ok - by bank regulations - then why is it at the same time "suspicious"? Who deems it suspicious? Now I'm not naive enough to think that the IRS doesn't sniff around bank transactions, but it comes across as ambiguous. Does a $9,999 deposit have consequences or not? At what frequency does it become "suspicious"? Inquiring minds want to know.
Hypothetical #1) I come into the bank with $9,999 in green cash and a corresponding deposit slip and push it to the teller. What happens? Her reply: We put the cash in your account and give you a receipt.
Hypothetical #2) Same as #1, except I add $1 to the amount. What happens? Her reply: We fill out a report and the transaction is flagged, we deposit the money in your account and give you a receipt. But I wouldn't do the $9,999 deposit either because we look at that too. They might not like it.
My next question to her was (respectfully), "Who is it that doesn't like it and why don't they like it?" She never could come up with a straight answer. The only thing she could offer was that I wanted to stay away from patterns that might look suspicious. BTW, I do understand that the purpose of the $10k flag is to detect money laundering, so no lectures on that.
That still left a question in my mind. If less than $10k is ok - by bank regulations - then why is it at the same time "suspicious"? Who deems it suspicious? Now I'm not naive enough to think that the IRS doesn't sniff around bank transactions, but it comes across as ambiguous. Does a $9,999 deposit have consequences or not? At what frequency does it become "suspicious"? Inquiring minds want to know.
This post was edited on 2/11/17 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 2/11/17 at 2:42 pm to tigerpawl
They are REQUIRED to fill out a form 8300 for transactions over $10K but they MAY fill one out for any transaction that they deem suspicious.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 2:56 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:That has always been my understanding. What constitutes suspicious?
They are REQUIRED to fill out a form 8300 for transactions over $10K
This post was edited on 2/11/17 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:03 pm to tigerpawl
I would think most 9,999 deposits get flagged as well.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:04 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
What constitutes suspicious?
Coming in with 9,999 dollars.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:07 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
They are REQUIRED to fill out a form 8300 for transactions over $10K but they MAY fill one out for any transaction that they deem suspicious.
simple as that, and $9999 is suspicious just b/c it looks like you are trying to stay under the autoflag
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:13 pm to Walking the Earth
quote:
What constitutes suspicious?
quote:My question is this: What's the point of the $10k threshold when amounts under $10k are also subject to being flagged? Is it totally arbitrary on the part of the bank? Guidelines?
Coming in with 9,999 dollars.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:21 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
My question is this: What's the point of the $10k threshold when amounts under $10k are also subject to being flagged? Is it totally arbitrary on the part of the bank? Guidelines?
Totally arbitrary. I worked as a teller for a few years when I was younger. If you notice people routinely depositing slightly less than $10k in an effort to avoid a CTR report, we were encouraged to fill out a SAR - Suspicious Activity Report. These went straight to the IRS. I filled out probably 2-3/month.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:28 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
My next question to her was (respectfully), "Who is it that doesn't like it and why don't they like it?" She never could come up with a straight answer.
Bank regulators due to regulations. Ever heard of the OCC bro?
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:37 pm to tigerpawl
Structuring cash deposits to avoid the reporting requirement is a federal crime, and people do get prosecuted for it.
Washington Post
quote:
But the Bank Secrecy Act also requires banks to report to the federal government any activity from customers that might be construed as structuring deposits to avoid the reporting requirement. So if you have $100,000 to deposit in your bank account, and you deliberately choose to deposit that money in increments of $9,999 so your bank won’t automatically notify the federal government, you’re guilty of structuring. It’s a felony punishable by a fine and/or up to five years in prison.
Your bank is also required to report any suspicious activity by its customers. Moreover, your bank is prohibited from letting you know that it has reported you to the government. Banks that fail to sufficiently police their customers or banks that notify customers that they’ve been reported for suspicious deposits risk financial sanctions. Bank personnel found to have neglected their duties to report suspicious customer behavior can also be criminally charged and sent to prison. So there’s quite a bit of incentive for your bank to give you up, and to cast a wide net around what constitutes “suspicious activity.” There’s lots of risk in under-policing for structuring, and virtually no risk of losing customers due to a policy of over-reporting them to the government. Most customers will never know.
Washington Post
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:45 pm to tigerpawl
Take it to the casino, play a few hands. Cash out with a certified check.. straight from hell or high water.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 3:51 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
My question is this: What's the point of the $10k threshold when amounts under $10k are also subject to being flagged? Is it totally arbitrary on the part of the bank? Guidelines?
It's called discretion. Now,
Posted on 2/11/17 at 5:49 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
I happened to be in my neighborhood Chase branch this morning and quizzed one of the officers nearby. I offered these 2 hypotheticals...
It doesn't really matter any more for you -- you've already put yourself on "the list".
Posted on 2/11/17 at 6:02 pm to tigerpawl
Never deposit your cash!
If I had 10k in cash I would pay 2500 cash a week towards the principal of my mortgage or any other note.
If I had 10k in cash I would pay 2500 cash a week towards the principal of my mortgage or any other note.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 6:04 pm to tigerpawl
I deposited 15K the other day in cash to pay off a loan after I sold a vehicle
What does the form they fill out mean to me in the long run?
I never really deposit cash but this was a large sum.
What does the form they fill out mean to me in the long run?
I never really deposit cash but this was a large sum.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 6:13 pm to tigerpawl
What if it's a check for 10k? Same procedure?
Posted on 2/11/17 at 6:34 pm to poops_at_parties
Avoiding a CTR is just retarded unless you're up to some shady shite. CTRs are nothing more than a paper trail stored in a database for future use.
A SAR on the other hand, from trying to avoid a CTR, will be reviewed by various financial crimes folks.
A SAR on the other hand, from trying to avoid a CTR, will be reviewed by various financial crimes folks.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 6:44 pm to poops_at_parties
quote:
What if it's a check for 10k? Same procedure?
Nah, it's only with cash. You might get a hold placed on your check, but there are no reports sent to anyone that I am aware of.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 7:28 pm to Croacka
quote:
What does the form they fill out mean to me in the long run?
Nothing. You're good.
Posted on 2/11/17 at 8:07 pm to Twenty 49
The CTR is actually triggered when you deposit $10,000.01 10k or less doesn't trigger a CTR. If you came in and deposited $9999, its very likely someone is filling out an SAR on you.
As someone said before, a CTR is nothing but a paper trail. Getting an SAR is a lot worse.
As someone said before, a CTR is nothing but a paper trail. Getting an SAR is a lot worse.
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