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Message
Posted on 1/10/15 at 9:23 pm to Mayhawman
on the positive side, Miles and Cam seem to realize the limitations of running their current offense and are going to make changes for next season. Miles even said that you can only change so much that late in the season , refering to the bye week before the TAM game and the period before the bowl game. The offense will be overhauled this offseason. Still pro style but with the spread elements that make that can make that style work. More like what you see in the NFL and college teams that have successfull pro style offenses, like Florida St and Bama.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 10:09 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Miles and Cam seem to realize the limitations of running their current offense and are going to make changes for next season
Damn I sure hope so because we truly can't afford another season with the kind of inept that we had this year before we are back to irrelevancy.
quote:
Miles even said that you can only change so much that late in the season
After the way Miles handled the Harris situation at the end of the year flat out lying to the public, he has lost all confidence in me believing the man anymore. He has entered the stage of "I will believe it when I see it" otherwise I don't believe he will change because he is stubborn as all hell.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 10:11 pm to Mayhawman
quote:
There are systems that require less, but are never there at the end. Which do you prefer?
The smash mouth system is proven by Miles and Saban (god).
Smash mouth is fine. No one cares what style LSU runs as long as it works more than every third or fourth year. Although this year is proving that smash mouth is not the only way to win.
My only issue is that for LSU, only juniors and seniors have been able to run it.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 10:27 pm to chilge1
quote:
In 2008 we started a redshirt freshman. In 2009 we started a true sophomore In 2011 we had one of the most efficienct offenses in CFB until 1/9/12 In 2012 we started a QB with one year in the system with Stud as the OC In 2013 we did whatever we wanted on offense in Cam's first year In 2014 we started a true sophomore.
A QB should be able to run a college system his second year in it. Obviously the more experience the better, but it's a bad college system that requires three years just to be decent.
2008-2009 were shite shows with new QBs. But you left off 2010--a bad offense with an experienced QB.
2011, with two senior QBs, was an ok offense but limited in the passing game. Certainly nothing special considering the QB experience.
2012 you can't just gloss over either. Mett was not a young QB. He had a year at UGA, a year playing juco where he actually played and didn't sit the bench, then a full year practicing LSU's system. Yet 2012 offense was still tepid.
2013 was a good offense, although with those skill players it would've been hard not to be good. Although I still think it should've been better considering the talent.
And there have been plenty teams with 2nd year QBs who have had productive offenses. You can figure out Google.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 10:50 pm to biglego
quote:
2013 was a good offense, although with those skill players it would've been hard not to be good. Although I still think it should've been better considering the talent.
I will give Miles and Cam credit for 2013 but I do believe it had a lot to do with Mett, Hill, OBJ and Juice being exceptional talent wise - NFL exceptional
It will be interesting next year, if they don't produce what excuse will the pumpers come up with to back Miles & Cam.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 10:53 pm to biglego
quote:I cant disagree, but expect the normal progression to take care of this.
My only issue is that for LSU, only juniors and seniors have been able to run it.
Seems if it gets interrupted, hard to right the ship.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 11:00 pm to biglego
quote:
A QB should be able to run a college system his second year in it. Obviously the more experience the better, but it's a bad college system that requires three years just to be decent.
2008-2009 were $#@% shows with new QBs. But you left off 2010--a bad offense with an experienced QB.
2011, with two senior QBs, was an ok offense but limited in the passing game. Certainly nothing special considering the QB experience.
2012 you can't just gloss over either. Mett was not a young QB. He had a year at UGA, a year playing juco where he actually played and didn't sit the bench, then a full year practicing LSU's system. Yet 2012 offense was still tepid.
2013 was a good offense, although with those skill players it would've been hard not to be good. Although I still think it should've been better considering the talent.
And there have been plenty teams with 2nd year QBs who have had productive offenses.
100% agree with all of this.
If we're to once again compete for championships, we simply have to change philosophies on O.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 11:09 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
If we're to once again compete for championships, we simply have to change philosophies on O.
I just wish Miles & Cameron would be more creative on offense, we recruit and sign great talent at the skill positions on offense and other than last year it just seems year after year they waste that talent by not being creative enough to get these players the football in space.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 12:08 am to Dudebro2
No way to judge the actual scheme without a QB. We didn't have anything remotely resembling a l FBS starting QB this year so we'll just have to wait and see
Posted on 1/11/15 at 2:41 am to biglego
quote:
But you left off 2010--a bad offense with an experienced QB.
Which resulted in the firing of the OC.
quote:
2011, with two senior QBs, was an ok offense but limited in the passing game. Certainly nothing special considering the QB experience.
60% completions 2000 yards 20 TD 5 INTs
quote:
He had a year at UGA, a year playing juco where he actually played and didn't sit the bench, then a full year practicing LSU's system. Yet 2012 offense was still tepid.
He had 9 months of 2nd team reps at Georgia and JUCO =/= SEC. Yet threw for 2500 yards.
quote:
And there have been plenty teams with 2nd year QBs who have had productive offenses. You can figure out Google.
Burden of proof lies with the maker of the statement
And this
quote:
expect the normal progression to take care of this.
Seems if it gets interrupted, hard to right the ship.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 8:26 am to Dudebro2
We just need a quarterback, gee that was tough.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 11:10 am to chilge1
So the OC was fired after 2010 bc of bad offense despite having experienced QBs. How does that help your position?
The 2011 passing game was ok but nothing great considering TWO senior QBs and NFL talent all around.
You're still glossing over 2012. That was a weak offense. Mett, a QB with NFL talent didn't just have a year at UGA and a full year of game reps at Juco. He also had a full year in te LSU system. Just to produce a weak 2012. So it took all that practice to get to the 2013 offense. If you think that sounds like a good system, then I guess there's nothing left to say.
The point is, It seems to take a perfect storm of experience and talent to make this offense function at all. Simply having experience at QB is not enough. The coaches are not capable of fitting the scheme around the players.
And you still want to argue that offenses can't function with a second-year QB? I didn't provide examples bc it's like arguing the sky is blue. Just look at Ohio St this year.
The 2011 passing game was ok but nothing great considering TWO senior QBs and NFL talent all around.
You're still glossing over 2012. That was a weak offense. Mett, a QB with NFL talent didn't just have a year at UGA and a full year of game reps at Juco. He also had a full year in te LSU system. Just to produce a weak 2012. So it took all that practice to get to the 2013 offense. If you think that sounds like a good system, then I guess there's nothing left to say.
The point is, It seems to take a perfect storm of experience and talent to make this offense function at all. Simply having experience at QB is not enough. The coaches are not capable of fitting the scheme around the players.
And you still want to argue that offenses can't function with a second-year QB? I didn't provide examples bc it's like arguing the sky is blue. Just look at Ohio St this year.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 11:58 am to biglego
quote:
So the OC was fired after 2010 bc of bad offense despite having experienced QBs. How does that help your position?
I'd say firing an OC warrants labeling those offensive numbers as an outlier, but that's just me.
quote:
The 2011 passing game was ok but nothing great considering TWO senior QBs and NFL talent all around.
What NFL talent? Reuben Randle and.....?
quote:
You're still glossing over 2012. That was a weak offense. Mett, a QB with NFL talent didn't just have a year at UGA and a full year of game reps at Juco. He also had a full year in te LSU system. Just to produce a weak 2012
What am I glossing over? First-time starter at QB throwing to first-time starters at WR. And I don't see how Mett learning three different offenses in as many years is seen as productive for his development. If anything, he was have been far better served had he stayed at Georgia 4 years.
If the only examples you can provide for a young QB coming in and being successful are Ohio State (and Oregon), then I guess there's nothing left to say.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 12:25 pm to JOJO Hammer
quote:
The pro-set worked great when LSU has a quarterback that is cabable of making reads and throwing the ball.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Posted on 1/11/15 at 12:46 pm to chilge1
Just a few recent examples of what you swear is impossible. These teams were led by QBs in their second years:
Florida 2007
Texas 2006
Georgia 2002
Ohio State 2014
Oregon 2008
Florida St 2013
Auburn 2013 - Marshall was a junior but had just one year playing QB and that was Juco, which you've already dismissed as being worthwhile experience regarding Mett.
I'm sure there are plenty more examples but you can work Google too. But whatever, you'll dismiss them all as aberrations, just like you dismissed the 2010 offense as an aberration and Mett's three years of experience as unimportant.
Florida 2007
Texas 2006
Georgia 2002
Ohio State 2014
Oregon 2008
Florida St 2013
Auburn 2013 - Marshall was a junior but had just one year playing QB and that was Juco, which you've already dismissed as being worthwhile experience regarding Mett.
I'm sure there are plenty more examples but you can work Google too. But whatever, you'll dismiss them all as aberrations, just like you dismissed the 2010 offense as an aberration and Mett's three years of experience as unimportant.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 1:00 pm to biglego
Never said it was impossible. I asked you to provide examples.
What you gave me was Masoli, who hardly qualifies, a long list of eventual Heisman finalists, and David Greene.
So is it the system, or is it recruiting?
What you gave me was Masoli, who hardly qualifies, a long list of eventual Heisman finalists, and David Greene.
So is it the system, or is it recruiting?
Posted on 1/11/15 at 1:27 pm to chilge1
Mett was as good or better than all those QBs listed.
So I say it's mostly the system. A great QB like Mett can compensate for the inferior system even though it took even him a long time to grasp it.
But I can concede that there is an argument to be made that it's mostly recruiting/experience. Probably a bit of everything.
I'm just pessimistic bc the passing game got no better from Wisc to ND and next year projects to be more of the same with either the same QB or a new one.
So I say it's mostly the system. A great QB like Mett can compensate for the inferior system even though it took even him a long time to grasp it.
But I can concede that there is an argument to be made that it's mostly recruiting/experience. Probably a bit of everything.
I'm just pessimistic bc the passing game got no better from Wisc to ND and next year projects to be more of the same with either the same QB or a new one.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 1:42 pm to biglego
I figure there are two ways of going about the debate against offensive philosophy.
Option 1 is what Kelly, Meyer, Malzhan, and others run
Pros
Easy transition from high school
More instinctive and natural
Imposes itself on the Defense
Cons
Poor transition to NFL
Exposes QB to injury risk
Can be neutralized by equal talent
Option 2 is what LSU, Georgia, Alabama (until recently) run
Pros
Allows Defense to commit themselves and exploits weaknesses
Prepares players for NFL
Cons
More cerebral and difficult to learn progressions
You need a competent QB to run either, but when both systems are implemented appropriately, give me the pro style all day.
Option 1 is what Kelly, Meyer, Malzhan, and others run
Pros
Easy transition from high school
More instinctive and natural
Imposes itself on the Defense
Cons
Poor transition to NFL
Exposes QB to injury risk
Can be neutralized by equal talent
Option 2 is what LSU, Georgia, Alabama (until recently) run
Pros
Allows Defense to commit themselves and exploits weaknesses
Prepares players for NFL
Cons
More cerebral and difficult to learn progressions
You need a competent QB to run either, but when both systems are implemented appropriately, give me the pro style all day.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 3:11 pm to chilge1
I favor the pro style too, but I guess I'm not confident LSU is able to execute it consistently enough. For whatever reason. Bama and UGA have been more successful. Whether that's coaching or bad luck with QB recruiting, I don't know.
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