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re: The secret to team depth and player retention
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:11 am to hansongrad
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:11 am to hansongrad
I remember Chief saying that they don't recruit kids that plan on staying in school for four years.
0
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:15 am to Drex
Do you have any stats showing we play more freshmen than the other top programs?
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:19 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
LSU's support system comes from a seemingly endless supply of young talent. Saturday, the Tigers played 19 freshmen or redshirt freshmen and 17 sophomores. The defensive line, which accounted for three sacks and six hurries, constantly rotates in fresh players. "I think we're a little deeper than we were last year," said defensive end Barkevious Mingo. "We're six or seven deep at end." That depth comes from a willingness to toss young players into the pool and with the hope they can swim. "We play a lot of people," defensive coordinator John Chavis said. "We don't recruit guys to redshirt. ... If you've recruited the right kind of people, they're not going to be here for four years anyway." I
This is from last year. What happened John?
LINK
This post was edited on 11/13/13 at 6:20 am
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:22 am to Placebeaux
[quote]LSU played 19 freshmen and 17 sophomores. "We play a lot of people," Chavis said. "We don't recruit guys to redshirt. ... If you've recruited the right kind of people, they're not going to be here for four years anyway." The Tigers will be just fine. Read More: LINK ]
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:32 am to Placebeaux
Seems like we would have some bad arse sophomores
They must have left
They must have left
Posted on 11/13/13 at 6:57 am to Topwater Trout
I know right
Let's face it, we've just been out recruited the past two years and I think it's because of that goat frick on 1/9/11.
Out recruited = out coached IMO
Let's face it, we've just been out recruited the past two years and I think it's because of that goat frick on 1/9/11.
Out recruited = out coached IMO
Posted on 11/13/13 at 7:48 am to Hoodatt
quote:
I was contemplating this very subject yesterday, wondering how Bama is able to hold onto guys that are obviously ready to move on in their careers and make millions, i.e. Fluker, Mosely, and the LB that came back last year among many others. Well, we got a little insight from Fluker's situation. He got his, I think, $2 million insurance policy put in place as a back up in case he got injured along with who knows what else the REC is funneling through various channels.
Seems like the only way to keep some of these guys from going to the NFL early is to provide enough economic benefits to help their families if needed, and insurance policies to mitigate the injury risk for them. I presume this is now illegal per NCAA (unless you find a way around it - see above quote for Bama), but why not change that for 4th and 5th year seniors? Why not allow a certain number of 4th and 5th year guys to get compensated a flat amount in those last 1-2 years, and get insurance? Set maximums per player and per team, e.g, $50,000 per player up to 10 players. Who gets it and how many (within the limits) are at the discretion of the coach(es). Take it out of the conference revenue or the coaches' salaries or a combination.
They can still choose to go, and the first-rounders likely would, but it bridges the economic disparity and the injury risk a little bit for the rest.
And then of course, implement the REC system - seems to be working...
.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 8:04 am to Topwater Trout
Hell most negatigers were bitching Miles never plays underclass men now he's doing it too much?
Posted on 11/13/13 at 8:11 am to Drex
quote:
Satan seems to hold them back a year or so to have them earn their playing time later in their college career rather than earlier.
Julio Jones, TJ Yeldon, Amari Cooper, etc.: Saban plays his most talented freshmen, as does Miles and everyone else these days. Playing top-notch freshman is now the rule in college football, not the exception.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 8:20 am to Drex
If you just recruit good EVERY YEAR then you will be good EVERY YEAR! Pretty simple actually.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 8:31 am to Drex
quote:
Are we playing too many freshmen too early thus setting the stage for their early success and early defection to the pros?
Satan seems to hold them back a year or so to have them earn their playing time later in their college career rather than earlier. Sure, Bama has their early defections like everyone but that usually applies only to their superstars.
People bashed miles for "not playing freshman" for year on the site. now he is being questioned for playing them.
At the end of the day, it's real simple. Bama is able to keep a lot of their jrs. (c.j. mosely, jesse williams, a.j, lacy, b. jones, etc). Lsu isn't.
Lsu did a poor job of recruiting in 2012. We lost a good o lineman who starts for Au, We lost davis on the last day, we lost kiel, only signed one d.e. and no d.t's. that is hurting today.
However, brockers would be a sr. this year, t.m. a s.r., minter sr., simon, reid, logan, etc. if we had 1/2 those guys we'd win the n.c.
Lastly, we, along with everyone else, missed on A. johnson, ego, rasco, loston. etc. they were not as good as they were hyped to be. A lof of the lb issue has to do with the d.t's not eating up offensive linemen for the lb's to run free and not be blocked. (not that we have great lb's, however, barrow was much better when logan and brockers were tackles) i don't think he got worse, i think the d.t's did.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 8:46 am to Hoodatt
It's got to be something like this - NFL ready players aren't staying longer at Bama just for the good of the team. LSU better figure out how to do something similar or it will be impossible to remain elite. There is just no way to compete when the playing field is not level.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 9:32 am to Drex
quote:
our coaches (ultimately CLM) did not have a backup plan or a strategy for the number of defections this year. It was that lack of planning and foresight that has us with 3 losses and yet another year of a missed opportunity.
Considering the rookie wage scale just started, I don't think any of the coaches at the time realized the effect it would have on their rosters. LSU, USCe, UF, and UGA lost a large number of underclassmen to the draft and all have had subpar years compared to their expectations. The only school that didn't feel as big a sting is Bama because of Saban's "process" decision that you don't go pro unless you're a sure 1st round pick.
LSU is openly promoting guys going to the NFL early and Spurrier thinks they should go pro if they are projected to be picked in round 5 or higher. The question is do the kids at Bama who can go pro look around, see what rounds other athletes are going pro in, defy Saban's "process," and go pro themselves. All it takes is one or two Bama players having major injuries their RSJR or SR seasons and seeing their draft stock drop when they could've gone pro earlier.
I'm not convinced Miles and Spurrier's philosophy is correct because I think with one more year to mature the kids' chances of sticking in the NFL are greater, but the chance of injury without a paycheck is greater too. Clearly it was the right call for Mingo and Reid but a bad decision for Sonic Sam.
This post was edited on 11/13/13 at 9:33 am
Posted on 11/13/13 at 9:33 am to stho381
quote:
Double-edged sword.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 9:57 am to Drex
quote:
Satan seems to hold them back a year or so to have them earn their playing time later in their college career rather than earlier. Sure, Bama has their early defections like everyone but that usually applies only to their superstars.
we did that with Brockers and others...and we all know how that turned out. kids play as freshmen because of extreme need or extreme talent. you folks bash the staff for not playing talent soon enough and then you bash the staff for preparing them too soon. get real.
quote:
IMO, we lost too many, too soon because of this coaching philosophy
what coaching philosophy....the one that says, "we play to win and to win you play your best"?
quote:
Obviously, there are a few freshmen who earn the right to start and contribute immediately. The coaching staff should be aware that those players will leave early. That being the case, recruiting should be structured to fill those gaps
are you frickn' serious? the best thing Miles and staff do is recruit and we bring in serious 4star talent every year. some of that talent is real and, no matter what the staff teaches, some of it just doesn't have it.
quote:
Unfortunately, our coaches (ultimately CLM) did not have a backup plan or a strategy for the number of defections this year.
most credible and knowledgable experts described that as "unprecedented"....look it up.
quote:
It was that lack of planning and foresight that has us with 3 losses and yet another year of a missed opportunity.
total bullshite....we have three losses because the kids that stayed dropped the ball or threw into coverage at the wrong time and in the wrong place. if those kids don't make those mistakes we're 9-1, not here debating how to stifle the 'free will' exhibited by our past players.
quote:
my frustration with our coaches and our need to change our philosophy regarding player eligibility prompted me to call it as I see it.
everybody is frustrated...you don't think Chavis is frustrated when most of his experienced depth opts out? you don't think Miles is frustrated when key players make crucial errors in very winnable games? our staff is not perfect...but to charge them with malfeasance because of roster retention is ludicrous. the kids we recruit are here for one reason and, whether we like it are not, they are going to put their family needs/fortune over any perceived fealty to a school that uses their talent for gain and a fan base that routinely trashes their efforts and reputation.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 10:38 am to Drex
quote:
Sorry if this is Germans.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is "Germans"? I see this all the time.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 10:58 am to TNTigerman
One thing that could help, would be to change the recruiting approach, just a little bit.
We sign 20+ guys every season, so maybe try to target about 5 each class that would be a "system guy"; someone who isn't physically that gifted, but could be expected to develop into a solid (if unexceptional)player. Someone who'd give depth and continuity to the program, and on seasons like this, may even start on defense.
While I type this, I mean somebody still better than Welter; but really, even a couple of Welter-type guys rotating in at defensive tackle to give Johnson and Ferguson a break would help.
We sign 20+ guys every season, so maybe try to target about 5 each class that would be a "system guy"; someone who isn't physically that gifted, but could be expected to develop into a solid (if unexceptional)player. Someone who'd give depth and continuity to the program, and on seasons like this, may even start on defense.
While I type this, I mean somebody still better than Welter; but really, even a couple of Welter-type guys rotating in at defensive tackle to give Johnson and Ferguson a break would help.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 11:05 am to Drex
I think everyone agrees that one of our biggest problems is our OL & DL.
Out of our 9 starters, only 1 has been in the program for 4 years. .
Out of Bama's 8 starters, 5 have been in the program for 4 years.
Any way you slice it, that screams team depth & player retention.
Out of our 9 starters, only 1 has been in the program for 4 years. .
Out of Bama's 8 starters, 5 have been in the program for 4 years.
Any way you slice it, that screams team depth & player retention.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 11:06 am to Scoob
Another angle to explore- maybe start hunting down "family" recruits; guys who have younger/older brothers. Consider the package deal for a couple of players each class.
Maybe player A is a better prospect than player B, but not by an awful lot; but player B has a little brother who may still be good enough to crack the 3-deep (or practice squad). Well, player B is probably more inclined to stay his senior year (and thus give more to LSU), if his little brother is here, too. You can do it in reverse if somebody's little brother is a 5 star you really want.
Don't have to do it with every recruit, but maybe try it for 4-5 kids out of the 25 you sign each year.
Maybe player A is a better prospect than player B, but not by an awful lot; but player B has a little brother who may still be good enough to crack the 3-deep (or practice squad). Well, player B is probably more inclined to stay his senior year (and thus give more to LSU), if his little brother is here, too. You can do it in reverse if somebody's little brother is a 5 star you really want.
Don't have to do it with every recruit, but maybe try it for 4-5 kids out of the 25 you sign each year.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 11:19 am to Scoob
quote:
We sign 20+ guys every season, so maybe try to target about 5 each class that would be a "system guy"; someone who isn't physically that gifted, but could be expected to develop into a solid (if unexceptional)player. Someone who'd give depth and continuity to the program, and on seasons like this, may even start on defense.
we get guys like this every yr. one of the issues we're facing right now is some of those guys either haven't panned out at all, or they're still developing.
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