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re: The other issue, "Prevent Defense"

Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:56 pm to
Posted by AGENT225
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2008
664 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:56 pm to
In how many of these games could the offense have put it away with a first down or 2?
Posted by lsusteve1
Member since Dec 2004
41895 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:57 pm to
I'd prefer we just continue to play our same D and send an extra guy here or there.

I think SEC coaches have gotten a little familiar with Chavis' tendencies at the end of games.


Having said this, a better O will solve these issues too.
Posted by redbaron
Member since Aug 2011
707 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:58 pm to
Someone said it before, CBs playing WAY off of the line...letting the opposing offense/WRs nickel and dime them down the field
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

This looks like the 3rd and Chavis the UT posters warned us about years ago. I love Chief but to say this is not a problem is to ignore reality.



He's completely changed his 2 minute philosophy since the 2012 Bama game. We played that soft.

The Clemson game was tight, double coverage and the QB got crushed as he let it go.

quote:

Saban obviously has this shite figured out and we need to do something different.


We did something different. Chavis put Mills in the position to end the game and he couldn't contain. He had a free shot at the QB off a blitz
Posted by Truetiger68
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
262 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:03 pm to
Most of them would have been put away with a first down or two. But at times you need your defense to make that critical stop. I agree with comment above, opposing coaches know what we are going to do defensively at the end of the game.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25097 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

I wanted to get everyone’s opinion on this issue.


Plant Bo Wallace on the opposing team. Problem solved.

Let's look at the times the LSU defense has risen up when needed.

2014 Ole Miss (forced turnover)
2014 Florida (forced turnover)
2014 Wisconsin (forced turnover and punt on successive drives)
2014 Iowa (stopped them a million times, bad calls gave them a touchdown, still won)
2013 Arkansas (forced fumble)
2013 Florida (forced turnover despite Welter's best efforts)
2012 Arkansas (defense held as time expired)
2012 A&M (embarrassed Heisman Trophy winner, still got a turnover on the final drive but clock only had 15 or so seconds on it)
2012 Auburn (got Tharold Simon'd on fourth down to close out a tremendous shoot-out, 12-10)

It goes on from there. We've had success, we've had failures. We've definitely won our share, though. That's what happens when you are in close games.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56463 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:13 pm to
quote:


I don't think you know what a prevent defense is.

Posted by Knight of Old
New Hampshire
Member since Jul 2007
10972 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:13 pm to
To damn many faux analysts in this thread. What the hell does the piece of goal post that the players touch before entering onto the filed at Tiger stadium say?

"WIN!"

Making up a bunch of BS about how a corner blitz failed or how a QB picked the defense apart is just that: BS. If the coaching goes soft, the players go soft - they start playing not to lose instead of making plays to "WIN!"

Winning: it's the first rule.
Posted by Truetiger68
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
262 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

We've had success, we've had failures. We've definitely won our share, though. That's what happens when you are in close games.


True Dat!!!
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

Someone said it before, CBs playing WAY off of the line...letting the opposing offense/WRs nickel and dime them down the field



There big play on the final drive.



This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 4:23 pm
Posted by JawjaTigah
Bizarro World
Member since Sep 2003
22499 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

Let's look at the times the LSU defense has risen up when needed.
Good list. But how many of these on the list were down to the final possession, where LSU's defense HAD to stop them or the other team would have won the game, or tied to force OT?

Just a question - haven't researched this.
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

Making up a bunch of BS about how a corner blitz failed or how a QB picked the defense apart is just that: BS. If the coaching goes soft, the players go soft - they start playing not to lose instead of making plays to "WIN!"



Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25097 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

Good list. But how many of these on the list were down to the final possession, where LSU's defense HAD to stop them or the other team would have won the game, or tied to force OT?

Just a question - haven't researched this.



The notes after each game explain it to you. Read them.
Posted by lsutothetop
TigerDroppings Elite
Member since Jul 2008
11323 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:27 pm to
This isn't a unique problem to LSU. It's innate to the game of football. Assuming even talent, an offense that has a reasonably good passing game typically can march down the field on a defense when they play with a 2-minute-drill mindset. What you're seeing is playcalling optimized: no inefficient running plays, and passing plays called to be as high-% as possible because there's no margin for error. In most cases where a defense beats an evenly-matched offense, it's because the offense is calling plays inefficiently.

There's a pretty simple way to see how this is innate to the game. The fact that we even acknowledge "prevent defense" or "end of game drives" as unique entities separate from the rest of the game should say something about the phenomenon I'm talking about here. If end-of-game drives weren't any different from regular drives, why is it that we talk about them as being different? Why do several teams (LSU included) play great defense all game and then mysteriously collapse at the end?

Instead of reducing it to an arbitrary "clutch" factor that, evenly applied, doesn't make sense (why is a team not "clutch" for playing great defense for 58 minutes out of 60?), let's look at the underlying dynamic of end-of-game drives. EOG drives are optimized for gaining the largest amount of yards in the shortest amount of time, it's no surprise that a team should struggle with them the most.
Posted by JawjaTigah
Bizarro World
Member since Sep 2003
22499 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

The notes after each game explain it to you. Read them.
I did. Read your (own) notes. None of them say it was the final possession of the game. That's why I asked.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25097 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

I did. Read your (own) notes. None of them say it was the final possession of the game. That's why I asked.


You can't be fricking serious? The OP is about last drive defenses. Each note describes the last defensive drive of each game (except where noted). Even a passing knowledge of LSU over the last three years would identify all of those games as one possession victories. The fact that you couldn't put the context together, google all of them, google a representative game from the list, or extrapolate this information from the Auburn example is troubling. Just the same, I assure you they are all one possession games and describe the last defensive series except where noted.
Posted by JawjaTigah
Bizarro World
Member since Sep 2003
22499 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:36 pm to
quote:

Just the same, I assure you they are all one possession games and describe the last defensive series except where noted.
You know I started by calling this a good list. I meant that as a compliment. I don't have the time or inclination to google any of this or research any of this. I just asked a simple question - was this the last possession? And then you went off on me. You ever have anybody say anything to you about having anger management issues, or bad attitudes? I had intended to thank you for providing that helpful information. Instead, I'll just say "Have a nice day!"
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
56250 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

I don't think you know what a prevent defense is.
he doesnt
Posted by Geauxgurt
Member since Sep 2013
10456 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 5:01 pm to
Chavis' defenses are horrible at the end of halves. It isn't something new. He's been outcoached numerous times in these types of situations.

2009:
- letting MSU driving down to the 1 and needing an amazing play by Jones to save the game in the last seconds

- Defense choked against UGA and LSU had to answer back with a huge run by Scott and return by Holiday.

- Defense gives up a TD drive late in regulation to Arkanasas at home nearly loses.

- Gives up a game winning FG drive to PSU in the bowl game.

2010
- Nearly blows a double digit lead and needs a dropped TD to survive a depleted UNC squad to open the season.


And that is just those years. It's not something new and his defenses struggle in the last 3-5 minutes of games more than you'd expect. All that said though, he's still a great DC and LSU is lucky to have him. He just really needs to fix that.
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
83929 posts
Posted on 11/24/14 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

You guys can split hairs all you want over what you 'term' the defense. Bottom line is we've blow our share of games in the last drive.


It's pretty baffling.
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