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re: The Experts Are Wrong About Players Generating Revenue
Posted on 6/3/11 at 7:09 am to DocBugbear
Posted on 6/3/11 at 7:09 am to DocBugbear
quote:
How bout we just start the "SEC Children's Fund"? We can put on tear-jerking commercials showing the hardships of playing college ball, collect donations, and then send out payments evenly to all the "undernourished" football players in the SEC.
You do realize that there are all kinds of academic scholarships out there that provided stipends in addition to tuition, fees, room and board....and that many of these scholarship/stipend awards do require the student to give up 15-20 hours per week like an athlete is required to?
You do realize that college athletes are not allowed to work or participate in federal work study programs?
1
Posted on 6/3/11 at 7:15 am to King Joey
quote:
I mean, if they're already not getting to watch Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees and Tom Brady, is it really going have much more of an impact if they're also missing out on Terrelle Pryor and Andrew Luck?
Do you think LSU fans notice the difference between the ability of JaMarcus Russell and Jordan Jefferson? How about a team full of Jordan Jeffersons? Or maybe the difference between Shaquille O'Neal and Geert Hammink?
Posted on 6/3/11 at 7:47 am to TigerEd
Hand & glove it seems to be the closer symbol to how the college football fans should look at assisting the college football players going to school today. We are all in the same boat, instead of pointing fingers at each other wondering what is better then thou, we should be look at the college student athlete's With a more open mindedness. Because everybody, especially the School, Coach, players and fans, is so very involved into what makes a college football game what a big time spectacular event that the college game is today.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 2:27 pm to LSU82BILL
quote:
How bout we just start the "SEC Children's Fund"? We can put on tear-jerking commercials showing the hardships of playing college ball, collect donations, and then send out payments evenly to all the "undernourished" football players in the SEC.
quote:
You do realize that there are all kinds of academic scholarships out there that provided stipends in addition to tuition, fees, room and board....and that many of these scholarship/stipend awards do require the student to give up 15-20 hours per week like an athlete is required to?
You do realize that college athletes are not allowed to work or participate in federal work study programs?
Yes, I realize both those things...
You do realize that statement was a joke.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:02 am to DocBugbear
quote:Except that there is no "trade". These are not employees, thus there is no "trade practice" to consider. They are a group of students competing in amateur athletic competition. They can (and often do) seek any form of legal employment or compensation available in any legal professional pursuit (including sports). But when they choose instead to compete in this amateur league, then they agree to abide by the rules established to maintain its amateurism.
There's really no way to avoid the fact that this is an unfair trade practice.
No one is forcing or even coercing these people into competing in NCAA sanctioned athletics. They are no different than anyone else joining any other amateur league. If your local Rec Basketball League had a rule against playing professional basketball while participating in the Rec League, there would be no "unfair trade practice" there, either.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:30 am to King Joey
quote:
But when they choose instead to compete in this amateur league, then they agree to abide by the rules established to maintain its amateurism.
No shite? Isn't the gist of this thread about changing those "rules"?
quote:
They are no different than anyone else joining any other amateur league. If your local Rec Basketball League had a rule against playing professional basketball while participating in the Rec League, there would be no "unfair trade practice" there, either.
And rec leagues make billions off ticket sales, concessions, licensing fees for apparel and TV contracts like the NCAA and it's member institutions do?
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:34 am to TigerEd
quote:
Many claim that the atheletes should be paid because they are the ones creating revenue for the schools. I have been a season ticket holder and lifelong fan because its LSU playing, not a particular player playing for LSU. If there were no college traditions and these athletes were playing in semi-pro leagues, does anyone think they would have the same following? If so, you are kidding yourself. For me, its the uniform, not the player inside the uniform. College players come and go, but the purple and gold is the constant attraction.
100% correct!
not sure how this thread plays out (i dont have time to read the entire thing), but the idea that players generate revenue is a false premise in my opinion.
Im sure multiple posters have pointed out how winning is directely attributable to players and thats what generates crowds, but many fans have been there through thick and thin, myself included.
LSU is the draw, not the star player/players. Winning is a team thing, not a player thing. For every "star" there is a supporting cast,that, were it not for them, the "star" doesnt shine as brightly.
i willingly to bet the differing philosophies on this have somewhat of an age correlation.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:43 am to prplngldtigr
Anybody that doesn't think tuition, books, housing, and meal plan is adequate enough pay, never went to college and paid for all of that. And they for damn sure aren't paying off school loans either.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:56 am to RealityTiger
You guys are forgetting one thing. Unlike Baseball, or Basketball, football players pretty much have to go play at a college if they want to go pro. Some of you guys are serious idiots. Football players have to go to college. College football is ONLY as popular as it is because of all of the damn future NFL prospects playing in it. No one pays to watch you freaking REC league on TV. RealityTiger, I heard Masconna spouting the same BS on the radio the other day. The truth of the matter is, NONE OF YOU have been an athlete on scholarship. Don't try to equivocate what they have to do on a daily basis with you sitting around smoking pot, drinking beer and working an off-campus job that gives you the ability to not eat all 3-4 meals on campus and go watch a movie or buy some new clothes.
It is the nature of their elitism that draws TV ratings and makes $$$. Go look at LSU contributions 20 years ago and current. Go look at how many unranked teams are on ESPN. Seriously, you guys are being so simple-minded about this that it's embarrasing to say im the same species as you.
One day an amaeutur league is going to come around and pay players and allow 18 year olds in it. When that happens, college football will be about as popular as college baseball, which I hate to break it to my fellow SEC bretheren... ain't all that popular.
It is the nature of their elitism that draws TV ratings and makes $$$. Go look at LSU contributions 20 years ago and current. Go look at how many unranked teams are on ESPN. Seriously, you guys are being so simple-minded about this that it's embarrasing to say im the same species as you.
One day an amaeutur league is going to come around and pay players and allow 18 year olds in it. When that happens, college football will be about as popular as college baseball, which I hate to break it to my fellow SEC bretheren... ain't all that popular.
This post was edited on 6/21/11 at 10:00 am
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:57 am to LSU82BILL
quote:Actually, it seemed to me that the gist of the OP was whether the current rules are unfair due to the revenue generated by the athletes. My contention is that it is not unfair because they are making a free and voluntary choice to abide by those rules.
Isn't the gist of this thread about changing those "rules"?
quote:Irrelevant. If they did, they could still make any rules for voluntary participation they wanted to make. If college football weren't making money, would that somehow make it okay to treat the athletes unfairly?
And rec leagues make billions off ticket sales, concessions, licensing fees for apparel and TV contracts like the NCAA and it's member institutions do?
Money doesn't make unfair practices fair, nor does it make fair practices unfair.
Think of it this way: imagine if someone starts a website that just films people chatting in a room. He just lets them come in and talk, argue, flirt, whatever they want to do on the webcam. Nobody has to come in and nobody has to stay, the door is always open. Now, is it fair for him not to offer any money to the people who come in and talk?
Does the answer change if he makes no profit off the site? Does the answer change if he makes a billion dollars off the site?
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:59 am to LSU82BILL
quote:Probably at least as much as they noticed the difference between Peyton Manning and JaMarcus Russell. And yet, that didn't stop them from shelling out tons of money to see JaMarcus. In fact, they did notice the difference between JaMarcus Russell and Jorden Jefferson, and they still shelled out tons of money.
Do you think LSU fans notice the difference between the ability of JaMarcus Russell and Jordan Jefferson?
Posted on 6/21/11 at 9:59 am to EricB
Ok Eric tell me one thing. Did you go to college? If so, how did you fund everything?
Serious question.
Serious question.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 10:06 am to RealityTiger
Yes. GI bill and saved up $$$. There's still something that isn't entering your mind right now and that is I wasn't a scholarship athlete. You can make these comparison's and reframe the situation all you want, but being in college, having to study and work is one thing, being in college having to study, practice / train year around, not being able to study many times much less work, having ESPN all up in your business (as if you were a PRO), facing scrutiny on national television (as if you were a pro), is another.
Having a real shot at being a profesional football player without going to college might make this halfway believable, but as of right now, this statement is the biggest amount of bullshite i've ever seen.
quote:
free and voluntary choice to abide by those rules.
Having a real shot at being a profesional football player without going to college might make this halfway believable, but as of right now, this statement is the biggest amount of bullshite i've ever seen.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 10:09 am to TigerEd
As pointed out several times, it's not about YOU, TigerEd!
When the skill level goes down, overall interest wanes. TV ratings decline. Revenue suffers. This has been proven time and time again.
When the skill level goes down, overall interest wanes. TV ratings decline. Revenue suffers. This has been proven time and time again.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 10:22 am to The_Pistol
it probably isn't "fair", but I like the idea of starting an IRA for a portion of the revenue from jersey sales of popular players. Even though the name isn't on the jersey, the player's talent and performance are still what drives the revenue. An IRA, or deferred trust, would keep the money at bay until a later age.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 10:30 am to EricB
Ok. Well then you can appreciate the fact of how much everything costs at least.
Try being a full time student and working part time to make ends meet. And then once I graduated, had $40,000.00 of debt from student loans since part time job wasn't enough to pay rent, bills, books, food, and anything else.
So when I graduated, I was faced with a $300.00 monthly payment at the very minimum to cover interest alone.
That's because I didn't get a college apartment paid for, I didn't get my books paid for, I didn't get a personal tutor, and I didn't get a meal plan. All the things an athelte is given. I would have given my left nut to get those things and not have $40,000 of debt after graduating.
And to boot, I'm not making millions to play a sport right now either.
So forgive me if I fail to be sympathetic b/c an athlete has to go to class, workout and practice, and deal with being on national tv every weekend in the fall. And then have cart blanche/celebrity status at any restaurant in town, and once they gradaute - make ten times a year what I make.
ETA: And let's not forget that these athletes are playing because, big money shot here, they want to play. Nobody is holding a gun to their head.
quote:
being in college, having to study and work is one thing, being in college having to study, practice / train year around, not being able to study many times much less work, having ESPN all up in your business (as if you were a PRO), facing scrutiny on national television (as if you were a pro), is another
Try being a full time student and working part time to make ends meet. And then once I graduated, had $40,000.00 of debt from student loans since part time job wasn't enough to pay rent, bills, books, food, and anything else.
So when I graduated, I was faced with a $300.00 monthly payment at the very minimum to cover interest alone.
That's because I didn't get a college apartment paid for, I didn't get my books paid for, I didn't get a personal tutor, and I didn't get a meal plan. All the things an athelte is given. I would have given my left nut to get those things and not have $40,000 of debt after graduating.
And to boot, I'm not making millions to play a sport right now either.
So forgive me if I fail to be sympathetic b/c an athlete has to go to class, workout and practice, and deal with being on national tv every weekend in the fall. And then have cart blanche/celebrity status at any restaurant in town, and once they gradaute - make ten times a year what I make.
ETA: And let's not forget that these athletes are playing because, big money shot here, they want to play. Nobody is holding a gun to their head.
This post was edited on 6/21/11 at 10:39 am
Posted on 6/21/11 at 10:58 am to RealityTiger
quote:
Anybody that doesn't think tuition, books, housing, and meal plan is adequate enough pay, never went to college and paid for all of that. And they for damn sure aren't paying off school loans either.
Good point.
If you price a school like Vanderbilt, SMU or an Ivy League School (not to mention some Big 10 and Pac 12 universities), the benefits received by the student-athlete could be as high as $50,000 per year (room, board, tuition, books, etc). This doesn't include extras such as tutors and athlete-only facilities. Over a 4 year period you are talking about several hundred thousand dollars. Not bad pay for getting the opportunity to play a game you love for a team you love.
Additionally, what about the schools that can't afford to pay players? Only about 20% of Division 1 schools are making a profit. Many schools use state money to fill budget gaps. Do you really think the general public is going to sit still for STUDENT-ATHLETES getting a free ride in school AND earning money that they (the taxpayers) pay? Add to this that Title IX is going to force you to pay girls gymnastics the same thing you pay men's football.
It's not going to happen. And it shouldn't. This is the ultimate capitalist position. If you don't think somebody is paying you enough for your services, stop performing. Try living like the general population and see which life style you like better.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 11:40 am to King Joey
quote:
Think of it this way: imagine if someone starts a website that just films people chatting in a room. He just lets them come in and talk, argue, flirt, whatever they want to do on the webcam. Nobody has to come in and nobody has to stay, the door is always open. Now, is it fair for him not to offer any money to the people who come in and talk?
Does the answer change if he makes no profit off the site? Does the answer change if he makes a billion dollars off the site?
Are these people students? Are they required to be in this room as a condition of a scholarship and are they required to be there 20 hours per week? Are they subject to public ridicule for how they perform or disabling injuries? Does their "voluntary" participation prohibit then from holding another job that pays for expenses outside of tuition and fees, books, room and board?
I don't see how you can equate that something is fair because it is voluntary. Is it "fair" that Phil Knight is a billionaire while hundreds of hundreds of thousands of Asian factory workers voluntarily choose to be exposed to toxins and carcinogens and paid $3 a day to work in a factory - a voluntary choice they make to avoid say, starvation? Is it fair that 2,752 people died in the World Trade Center because they made a voluntary choice to work in a building that was a terrorist target?
Posted on 6/21/11 at 12:03 pm to LSU82BILL
Are you really going to equate college athletes with sweat shop workers in Asia? Really?
Those people are working because they have to pay the bills and eat. College athletes are having fun while getting every expense paid for while playing a sport.
It's an insult to the people of Asia for you to even attempt to compare the two things.
Those people are working because they have to pay the bills and eat. College athletes are having fun while getting every expense paid for while playing a sport.
It's an insult to the people of Asia for you to even attempt to compare the two things.
Posted on 6/21/11 at 12:09 pm to RealityTiger
Exactly where do I "equate" the two? I am trying to put the word "voluntary" into context since another poster believes that as long as a person acts voluntarily that the result is fair. So please, work on you reading comprehension skills before you start slinging the mud.
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