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Started By
Message
re: The "call" explained
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:01 pm to HurricanePete
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:01 pm to HurricanePete
quote:
Miami will be back,
1
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:06 pm to tLSU
quote:
Oh is that what happens in the NFL? If I interfere with you catching a pass, and you catch it, he picks up the flag? If there's a hold called on the end of the line opposite from where the play develops, thus not affecting the play, is it picked up? If an NBA player fouls during a shot, and the shot goes in, is it waived off? I guess when the facts aren't going your way, you just make up new ones.
I'll put it another way that perhaps you can understand: NFL, defensive holding is called, but play results in a TD. The penalty is declined, TD stands. Only when a dead ball foul, that is only called AFTER the play is over, does penalty yardage get tacked on the next play after a TD. I don't think a dead ball foul can ever be called before a play is whistled as being over.
Put into this baseball situation, a foul is called on a DP. The DP is successful, so the penalty becomes mute, except for the "additional" penalty of sending scoring run back to 3rd, which this entire thread is really all about. The rule makes no sense. FL had conceded the run when they attempted the DP. It's the "dead ball" part of the rule that makes no sense. Why dead ball? The runner to 2nd who committed the foul is out, the runner to 1st is automatically safe, no reason for dead ball other than to penalize the offensive team further by making runners go back to bases they had occupied. That is excessive, especially considering the questionable interference call to start with.
Again, the ump should have reversed his call after seeing the results: runner to 1st safe, tying run scored, and the HUGE impact it would have in a National Championship game! I'm not positive if they did or not, but at the very least the umps should have huddled, discussed what each of them saw, then reversed the call because I really don't believe they would all agree interference was the correct thing. The rule needs to be reviewed and revised by NCAA. Until then, it is what it is, and it's a done deal, we could argue both ways for days, time to move on. The guy that I feel the worst for and who's probably feeling the worst is Slaughter. He'll remember it for a long time, and may never forget.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:13 pm to theunknowntigerfan
quote:
Again, the ump should have reversed his call after seeing the results: runner to 1st safe, tying run scored, and the HUGE impact it would have in a National Championship game! I'm not positive if they did or not, but at the very least the umps should have huddled, discussed what each of them saw, then reversed the call because I really don't believe they would all agree interference was the correct thing. The rule needs to be reviewed and revised by NCAA. Until then, it is what it is, and it's a done deal, we could argue both ways for days, time to move on. The guy that I feel the worst for and who's probably feeling the worst is Slaughter. He'll remember it for a long time, and may never forget.
A. The runner was out at first.
B. If he was safe at first, are you really arguing that the correct call would be to keep him safe at first? Slaughter cleated the SS legs to affect the throw. You are being ridiculous if you think that is not interference.
C. You can agree or disagree with the rule not allowing any advancement of bases, but there is absolutely no way you can argue that interference wasn't the correct call. Do I need to repost the video of the play from page 5?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:16 pm to theunknowntigerfan
quote:
Put into this baseball situation, a foul is called on a DP. The DP is successful, so the penalty becomes mute, except for the "additional" penalty of sending scoring run back to 3rd, which this entire thread is really all about.
This is what you're missing. The double play was not successful,it never occurred. The batter-runner was out immediately, before the ball was thrown. Him throwing the ball to first was like a QB throwing the ball after the whistle is blown.
I've already said I understand the issues with the rule, but I equally understand why the rule says what it is says. It's a very simple rule to follow, and that's all you have to do to avoid costing your team a run.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:16 pm to TigersD69
quote:
Long story short that call comes down to what kind of baseball guy you are, either a purist or a technical guy. Baseball is a game of interpretive rules and human judgement. Example, when the ump is giving an inch off the plate to a pitcher hitting his spots is that technically a strike? No..so the technical guys jump up and down and screams foul, while the purist understands that this is simply the particular umps "zone" and the pitcher is being rewarded for hitting his spots. Furthermore when pitchers consistently violate the 45 degree angle interpretation rule is that "technically" a balk? Yes...But how many times do you actually see it called and a runner allowed to score from 3rd. The play at 2nd was a simply a technical call. The purist understands the situation and makes no call there b/c (and only b/c) the integrity of the DP was not affected. However I think it was obvious as to what kind of baseball guy we had umping 2nd tonight.
FWIW.... it did not ultimately affect the outcome...the baseball Gods tend to be funny like that.
Well, thank you umps. They did a fine job. Bless their hearts. Go back to glue and craft projects for a living.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:26 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
but there is absolutely no way you can argue that interference wasn't the correct call.
It was technically the right call, but it is absolutely a reasonable position to question and discuss whether he should have maybe bit his tongue and "kept the flag in his pocket" on that one.
There is no right answer here... It is in fact a judgment call at the umpire's discretion. The ump made his judgment call. Maybe he should have, maybe he shouldn't have, and a different ump may have very well made a different call. That's baseball. The judgment call that was made was not the one LSU wanted. It was a strange and unique situation, and it's certainly not unreasonable to question why more restraint was not shown by Slaughter and by the umpire.
Again, though, it makes me feel much better to know that we did not lose because of that call. We still had chances in the 8th that we failed.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:34 pm to JPLSU1981
quote:
It was technically the right call, but it is absolutely a reasonable position to question and discuss whether he should have maybe bit his tongue and "kept the flag in his pocket" on that one.
The thing is, though, he's making that call before the throw gets to first. It's a deadball call. He doesn't get to wait and see what's gonna happen on the play before making a ruling. He either makes that interference call when it happens, or he doesn't. From that perspective, he shouldn't be keeping the flag in his pocket. If he doesn't rule interference there, and that ball sails way off mark to first base, what then? He can't let that happen with the way Slaughter slid.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:48 pm to JJ27
quote:
He was closer to the bag than Kramer was when he slid into home and slapped the plate. Are you saying Slaughter could not have easily grabbed the bag with his left arm? He was literally 6 inches away from the bag. Terrible call.
The rule is for force plays only. Does not matter at the plate if not force play.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 6:32 pm to woodroe
The penalty in this case far exceeds the crime. LSU was given a life sentence for jaywalking, and the umpire is smart enough and experienced enough to know that and to exercise restraint given the stakes and understanding there was a man on 3rd and less than 1 out in that situation.
You make that call early in a game to send a message to both teams, not in the 7th inning of the national championship.
Regardless, it's over. LSU didn't get a call that could have, and arguably should have, been let go.
It was not an egregious slide, and anyone who believes it was doesn't watch much baseball outside LSU.
You make that call early in a game to send a message to both teams, not in the 7th inning of the national championship.
Regardless, it's over. LSU didn't get a call that could have, and arguably should have, been let go.
It was not an egregious slide, and anyone who believes it was doesn't watch much baseball outside LSU.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:21 pm to Carville
quote:
Bottom of the 8th face plant never happens if this call isn't made.
I hope you're kidding!
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:43 pm to Godfather1
quote:
If he hadn't called it, I find it highly doubtful O'Sullivan would've come out of the dugout to protest it. It was that hairline.
He would not have. It had no impact on the play. The double play was still executed. The intent of the rule is to call interference when it has an impact on the play. It did not in this case.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:42 pm to TigerBait2008
My goodness. Did you watch the Oregon State games. The ump won you those games
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:51 pm to Mulerider
quote:
The double play was still executed
No, it was not. The play was dead the moment the ump threw his hands up when the contact was made. The batter-runner was out at that instant.
There was no double play. He could have thrown the ball into the left field bleachers with no difference.
If the intent of the rule was to only be applied when the double play wasn't turned, it wouldn't be a dead ball penalty. That statement isn't logical.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:53 pm to HurricanePete
quote:
My goodness. Did you watch the Oregon State games. The ump won you those games
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