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re: Statistics: Why LSU will beat Wisconsin: A response to Wisc Trolls
Posted on 8/23/14 at 10:58 pm to igoringa
Posted on 8/23/14 at 10:58 pm to igoringa
You clearly don't understand Gordon and his role on the team. I'll break it down for you.
First, he was the backup. James White was the starter. He was drafted in the fourth round and is getting raves from Belichek, Bradey, and Ridley. Think Kevin Faulk but a better runner. If he lasts half as long as Faulk it will be a nice career.
Because of White, Gordon wasn't utilized in the passing game.
Second, you are viewing him in the wrong context. Last year we had terrible WRs except for Abby. Gordon was used in a role similar to how Harvin was used, minus receiving. He wasn't brought in to run between the tackles. He was used on plays like the fly sweep.
As the season progresses teams obviously keyed on this. Which helped us in play action. Remember, we needed all the help we could get in the passing game as Abbt had 78 catches while our next best receiver had 12. That is how bad it was.
He ran plays that everyone knew were coming, yet we still had to run them. Because otherwise the defense could completely cheat. It was Catch 22.
OSU: I'm not even going to touch your pitiful comment. But, you are completely wrong about stopping us. First, we put 105 on them on 23 carries. That isn't being stopped. If you watched the game you would have seen Abby destroy their first round pick Brady Roby for 200 on ten catches.
You seem to think we are a monolithic offense. We run a pro style offense. Which is now transitioning.
You have to view his performance understanding how limited our offense was and how it impacted him.
Scared: did I use that word? I simply found it curious that War Tiger, when assessing Gordon vs. good defenses left out USC. Seems kind of surprising that he would leave out an SEC team while including Minny.
The truth is that Gordon is one of the top backs in the nation. The NFL scouts have no vested interest and we know what they think. He is the equivalent of Gurley. Are you scared of him? Probably not, but you should respect him.
I guarantee you nobody in big ten country would be putting Minny ahead of USC. If you think there is a talent disparity between LSU and Wisconsin is big, then Minny is Tulane.
First, he was the backup. James White was the starter. He was drafted in the fourth round and is getting raves from Belichek, Bradey, and Ridley. Think Kevin Faulk but a better runner. If he lasts half as long as Faulk it will be a nice career.
Because of White, Gordon wasn't utilized in the passing game.
Second, you are viewing him in the wrong context. Last year we had terrible WRs except for Abby. Gordon was used in a role similar to how Harvin was used, minus receiving. He wasn't brought in to run between the tackles. He was used on plays like the fly sweep.
As the season progresses teams obviously keyed on this. Which helped us in play action. Remember, we needed all the help we could get in the passing game as Abbt had 78 catches while our next best receiver had 12. That is how bad it was.
He ran plays that everyone knew were coming, yet we still had to run them. Because otherwise the defense could completely cheat. It was Catch 22.
OSU: I'm not even going to touch your pitiful comment. But, you are completely wrong about stopping us. First, we put 105 on them on 23 carries. That isn't being stopped. If you watched the game you would have seen Abby destroy their first round pick Brady Roby for 200 on ten catches.
You seem to think we are a monolithic offense. We run a pro style offense. Which is now transitioning.
You have to view his performance understanding how limited our offense was and how it impacted him.
Scared: did I use that word? I simply found it curious that War Tiger, when assessing Gordon vs. good defenses left out USC. Seems kind of surprising that he would leave out an SEC team while including Minny.
The truth is that Gordon is one of the top backs in the nation. The NFL scouts have no vested interest and we know what they think. He is the equivalent of Gurley. Are you scared of him? Probably not, but you should respect him.
I guarantee you nobody in big ten country would be putting Minny ahead of USC. If you think there is a talent disparity between LSU and Wisconsin is big, then Minny is Tulane.
3
Posted on 8/23/14 at 11:10 pm to BuckyBadger
Well Bucky, LSU education has been questioned before.
I have no way to compare my education to yours....I just fix bones and joints for living. Who am I to label one education superior to another?
On the other hand, I believe I adequately addressed several dynamic views on the upcoming game. After your last, hyper-focused comment, I went back and looked at his yards in the bowl game. Impressive. More precisely, that is the most impressive performance of the year. The rest of the year reflects great performances against vastly inferior teams.
Now, will you acknowledge that Gordon had 68 yards vs Iowa when our back attained 217?
I have no way to compare my education to yours....I just fix bones and joints for living. Who am I to label one education superior to another?
On the other hand, I believe I adequately addressed several dynamic views on the upcoming game. After your last, hyper-focused comment, I went back and looked at his yards in the bowl game. Impressive. More precisely, that is the most impressive performance of the year. The rest of the year reflects great performances against vastly inferior teams.
Now, will you acknowledge that Gordon had 68 yards vs Iowa when our back attained 217?
Posted on 8/23/14 at 11:21 pm to BuckyBadger
Oh Bucky!!!! You almost lost me at 'think Kevin Faulk, but a better runner'...........but I persevered!!!
Look, I'll give you this. Gordon is good, and he is about to play the game that catapults him into serious Heisman contention....or he will come back down to Earth a little.
The whole reason I looked into the statistics about Gordon and Wisconsin is because I respect the team, I respect Gordon's abilities.......and I really, really respect the coach!
I was nervous. However my research gave me some confidence. I feel better about the Tigers snatching victory on Saturday, but I believe deep down that the boys need to jus strap on their gear and play the game.
Good luck! It should be a great one
Look, I'll give you this. Gordon is good, and he is about to play the game that catapults him into serious Heisman contention....or he will come back down to Earth a little.
The whole reason I looked into the statistics about Gordon and Wisconsin is because I respect the team, I respect Gordon's abilities.......and I really, really respect the coach!
I was nervous. However my research gave me some confidence. I feel better about the Tigers snatching victory on Saturday, but I believe deep down that the boys need to jus strap on their gear and play the game.
Good luck! It should be a great one
Posted on 8/23/14 at 11:38 pm to WAR TIGER
I can only hope you are more thorough in your patient exams than you displayed here. Previously you would have appeared to be a candidate for the doc who mistakenly removes the wrong leg. ;)
Of course I will acknowledge his game in Iowa. Just as you will acknowledge that our STARTER went for 132.
I don't know why you would compare our backup to your starter. Shouldn't we really be talking about Blue?
And I know you will acknowledge that our offense accrued more yards and points against them despite having worse speed and athletes.
No matter what you say, the NFL has noted his talent. You can stat your way to whatever you want to believe. For example I could easily argue that his lack of touches greatly hinder MG. Not only does it hurt rhythm but MG is a home run hitter. Thus more carries greatly increases his chances of impressive stats.
Stats are our attempt to quantify and understand what happened. Using them without understanding context is perilous at best.
For example, I could easily look at your game against Iowa and say either that you QB sucked or that Iowa completely shut down your passing game based on stats. Would that be a completely accurate picture of the game?
Of course I will acknowledge his game in Iowa. Just as you will acknowledge that our STARTER went for 132.
I don't know why you would compare our backup to your starter. Shouldn't we really be talking about Blue?
And I know you will acknowledge that our offense accrued more yards and points against them despite having worse speed and athletes.
No matter what you say, the NFL has noted his talent. You can stat your way to whatever you want to believe. For example I could easily argue that his lack of touches greatly hinder MG. Not only does it hurt rhythm but MG is a home run hitter. Thus more carries greatly increases his chances of impressive stats.
Stats are our attempt to quantify and understand what happened. Using them without understanding context is perilous at best.
For example, I could easily look at your game against Iowa and say either that you QB sucked or that Iowa completely shut down your passing game based on stats. Would that be a completely accurate picture of the game?
Posted on 8/23/14 at 11:45 pm to WAR TIGER
Faulk was a third down back in the NFL. Belichek is on record that White can contribute on all downs. Which could impact Ridley.
Again, as I posted already, stats are very deceiving. Especially in relation to Gordon.
Game: I'm in record that if I was betting I would put it on LSU. I would not be shocked to see us win. I would like to win, but a competitive game and a fun one can benefit us in recruiting.
And, playing you guys is a nice warmup for the game that matters. Bama in 15.
Again, as I posted already, stats are very deceiving. Especially in relation to Gordon.
Game: I'm in record that if I was betting I would put it on LSU. I would not be shocked to see us win. I would like to win, but a competitive game and a fun one can benefit us in recruiting.
And, playing you guys is a nice warmup for the game that matters. Bama in 15.
This post was edited on 8/23/14 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 8/23/14 at 11:56 pm to BuckyBadger
quote:
First, he was the backup. James White was the starter. He was drafted in the fourth round and is getting raves from Belichek, Bradey, and Ridley. Think Kevin Faulk but a better runner. If he lasts half as long as Faulk it will be a nice career.
They rotated series for the first six games, as reflected in the fact that Gordon actually had more carries. You can spin as backup, but you get as many or more carries to start... it is just an attempt at deflection. It wasn't till he faded in the second half that White started getting 5 more carries a game than him.
quote:
Because of White, Gordon wasn't utilized in the passing game.
ofcourse... two guys share the rock equally for half a season and one guys doesn't get any catches 'because of the other'. However you want to spin it buddy.
quote:
Second, you are viewing him in the wrong context. Last year we had terrible WRs except for Abby.
Vs this year where you will just have terrible WRs
quote:
Gordon was used in a role similar to how Harvin was used, minus receiving. He wasn't brought in to run between the tackles. He was used on plays like the fly sweep.
Yes he did go to the outside more - but his carries will equal White until he faded...
quote:
OSU: I'm not even going to touch your pitiful comment. But, you are completely wrong about stopping us. First, we put 105 on them on 23 carries. That isn't being stopped. If you watched the game you would have seen Abby destroy their first round pick Brady Roby for 200 on ten catches.
Holding your invincible running game to 100 isn't shutting you down? LOLOL And yes Abby who is no longer there tore them apart. He was one of the best route runners (if not the best) in the nation. He is gone and you now have dogmeat out wide.
quote:
You have to view his performance understanding how limited our offense was and how it impacted him.
And you have to view this game as the fact that your limited offense lost the only thing that resembled talent in Abby (outside the running game). If it was limited with Abby, lets not pretend it is a transitioning dynamic force without him.
quote:
Scared: did I use that word? I simply found it curious that War Tiger, when assessing Gordon vs. good defenses left out USC. Seems kind of surprising that he would leave out an SEC team while including Minny.
Again feel free to include a double digit loss where your guy got some meaningless yards. Congratulations - will gladly have him go for 125 and a double digit win. But to pretend he didn't fade in the back half as he lost carries to White is ignoring reality.
quote:
The truth is that Gordon is one of the top backs in the nation. The NFL scouts have no vested interest and we know what they think. He is the equivalent of Gurley. Are you scared of him? Probably not, but you should respect him.
Yes he is... and we face top backs all the time. Not discounting he is a talent, but not since we made James disappear 3 years ago have I heard so much talk about a single dimensioned team that is going to take it to us. And that was a top 10 team that was a hell of a lot better than Wisconsin.
quote:
I guarantee you nobody in big ten country would be putting Minny ahead of USC. If you think there is a talent disparity between LSU and Wisconsin is big, then Minny is Tulane.
I don't recall him putting anyone 'ahead'. I recall you guys ignoring his production drop in the back half of the season by hanging your hat on some mediocre bowl that you lost by double digits.
If you don't think there is a talent difference between LSU and Wisky then we can just leave it there. I guess that lack of vested interest by scouts doesn't apply to recruiting or the human eye
Posted on 8/24/14 at 8:34 am to WAR TIGER
quote:
Now, will you acknowledge that Gordon had 68 yards vs Iowa when our back attained 217?
Completely irrelevant.
Posted on 8/24/14 at 8:45 am to igoringa
quote:
They rotated series for the first six games, as reflected in the fact that Gordon actually had more carries. You can spin as backup, but you get as many or more carries to start... it is just an attempt at deflection. It wasn't till he faded in the second half that White started getting 5 more carries a game than him.
It wasn't 'fading' that gave White more carries than Gordon. Both RBs are plenty talented. Hell, White didn't become a full-time starter until his senior season and still ended his career as one of the better running backs to ever come through Wisconsin. It has been said time and time again that James White was the best RB in the 2014 draft class when it came to pass blocking. That is the reason he became the featured back in Wisconsin down the stretch. Does that mean Gordon is inferior in the pass game? Absolutely not. He was a raw prospect in that aspect of the game because of his use previously.
quote:
ofcourse... two guys share the rock equally for half a season and one guys doesn't get any catches 'because of the other'. However you want to spin it buddy.
This is actually completely true. White was superior in the passing game, which has translated the pros, and received plenty more snaps.
quote:
Again feel free to include a double digit loss where your guy got some meaningless yards. Congratulations - will gladly have him go for 125 and a double digit win. But to pretend he didn't fade in the back half as he lost carries to White is ignoring reality.
The fact that you believe his yards were meaningless tells me you did not watch the game. Your entire post actually tells me you did not watch much of Wisconsin and instead receive your information off of ESPNs player card.
quote:
Yes he is... and we face top backs all the time. Not discounting he is a talent, but not since we made James disappear 3 years ago have I heard so much talk about a single dimensioned team that is going to take it to us. And that was a top 10 team that was a hell of a lot better than Wisconsin.
More relevant than what happened three seasons ago would be to look at what top running backs (i.e. Gurley and Yeldon) did to your defense last season.
quote:
If you don't think there is a talent difference between LSU and Wisky then we can just leave it there. I guess that lack of vested interest by scouts doesn't apply to recruiting or the human eye
I am not sure what the OP said, but just about every Wisconsin fan would acknowledge a talent difference. You're kidding yourself if that will make any Wisconsin fan roll over. This has been said by every comparable opponent for the past decade or two. Yet, Wisconsin wins at a high rate. This does not necessarily means Wisconsin wins, but that attempting to convince Wisconsin fans that talent wins in the end will not do much good in our eyes.
Posted on 8/24/14 at 8:51 am to igoringa
quote:
He was the backbone of my fantasy team so I saw basically every carry.
I doubt this.
Why?
quote:
That horrific OSU defense shut that running game down and PSU did much the same. 4 of the next 5 he was the clear ineffective RB (and thus his carries. Over the first 6 games, he averaged more carries than White. Last 6, the coaches consciously switched to White given him a full 5 more carries a game.
Because neither team actually shut down the run game. Wisconsin was forced to abandon it due to playing from behind. There is a reason those were the two games Joel Stave threw the most balls in his career. There is a reason Jared Abbrederis had 200+ receiving yards against Ohio State.
Each game had absolutely nothing to do with "[shutting] that run game down."
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:25 am to hoopsgalore
Hoopsgalore,
I noted that one of your sentences went unfinished:
"Wisconsin wins at a high rate....." You forgot "against ranked teams".......
How many ranked teams did Wisconsin beat last year? One. And go backwards. 1 victory over a ranked team except twice you got 2 (over the last 7). In total, your record is 9-17 vs ranked teams. I wonder how different that would look playing Bama, Florida, Auburn every single year? Worse? Better?
You claiming a high success rate for wins, with your schedule, discredits you and your argument.
Further, someone please tell me how Gordon would produce playing LSU's schedule?
I think the other poster is trying to say that the bulk of Gordon's yards came against pushovers.
I noted that one of your sentences went unfinished:
"Wisconsin wins at a high rate....." You forgot "against ranked teams".......
How many ranked teams did Wisconsin beat last year? One. And go backwards. 1 victory over a ranked team except twice you got 2 (over the last 7). In total, your record is 9-17 vs ranked teams. I wonder how different that would look playing Bama, Florida, Auburn every single year? Worse? Better?
You claiming a high success rate for wins, with your schedule, discredits you and your argument.
Further, someone please tell me how Gordon would produce playing LSU's schedule?
I think the other poster is trying to say that the bulk of Gordon's yards came against pushovers.
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:27 am to BuckyBadger
Oh, and Bucky,
I never got personal with any of you.
If I did surgery on you, it would be to remove your brain from your arse and return it to your cranium.
I never got personal with any of you.
If I did surgery on you, it would be to remove your brain from your arse and return it to your cranium.
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:33 am to WAR TIGER
Well, Wisconsin did have a winning percentage better than 70% during the BCS era. Simply, that is winning at a high rate, yes?
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:56 am to hoopsgalore
quote:
Well, Wisconsin did have a winning percentage better than 70% during the BCS era. Simply, that is winning at a high rate, yes?
Barely...Wisconsin's win percentage during the BCS era was .705 while LSU's was .732 against a far greater SOS year after year than Wisconsin's
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:04 am to LSURulzSEC
Wisconsin was a Top 15 program in terms of winning percentage during the BCS era with a winning percentage greater than .700. The program was in the ninetieth percentile during the most recent era of college football. As I said, Wisconsin wins at a high rate.
What does the winning percentage of LSU have to do with anything?
What does the winning percentage of LSU have to do with anything?
This post was edited on 8/24/14 at 10:05 am
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:09 am to hoopsgalore
quote:
What does the winning percentage of LSU have to do with anything?
YOU brought up win percentage...I simply compared it to LSU's...which faces a stronger schedule year after year than Wisconsin...
I can say without doubt that if LSU and Wisconsin were in each others conferences during the BCS era LSU's win percentage would be greater while Wisconsin would fall into the .600's...
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:13 am to LSURulzSEC
I did bring up winning percentage to combat the perceived notion that Wisconsin does not win at a high rate. They indeed do and it has nothing to do with LSU. I was speaking solely in terms of what Wisconsin has done. Absolutely nothing to do with LSU and not sure why the comparison was even brought to light.
This post was edited on 8/24/14 at 10:14 am
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:13 am to hoopsgalore
Your stats are inflated last yr cause you played terrible teams
Bringing up 293yds against USCe whose entire dline was more focused on not getting injured and the nfl combine than that shitty bowl is ridiculous. You lost by 10 as well.
You also are giving your Oline way to much credit. Watch PSU,OSU,and ASU game. Those defenses didnt get manhandled by that Oline.
You will get some yrds rushing but prepare thy anus
Bringing up 293yds against USCe whose entire dline was more focused on not getting injured and the nfl combine than that shitty bowl is ridiculous. You lost by 10 as well.
You also are giving your Oline way to much credit. Watch PSU,OSU,and ASU game. Those defenses didnt get manhandled by that Oline.
You will get some yrds rushing but prepare thy anus
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:13 am to hoopsgalore
6 days...
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:14 am to LSURulzSEC
quote:
while Wisconsin would fall into the .600's...
I'd say barely .500 if they were SEC.
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:18 am to hoopsgalore
quote:
I did bring up winning percentage to combat the perceived notion that Wisconsin does not win at a high rate. They indeed do and it has nothing to do with LSU. I was speaking solely in terms of what Wisconsin has done. Absolutely nothing to do with LSU and not sure why the comparison was even brought to light.
Yes Wisconsin has won at a high percentage rate...just over 70% at .705...
what we are pointing out is its a high winning percentage against lesser competition year in year out compared to what LSU with a win percentage of .732 has had to face in the BCS era which still put up a higher win percentage than Wisconsin did...
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