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Started By
Message
re: Ruling on SELA catcher tossing ball to his dugout
Posted on 2/20/14 at 10:36 am to Billy Ray Valentine
Posted on 2/20/14 at 10:36 am to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
Once the coach picks up the ball the play is dead.
No play is dead until the umpire rules it dead. The umpire didn't rule anything dead at the time. This could be well after the fact (as in the game last night) or while the play is occurring.
quote:
if an OF throws a ball out of play it's a 2 base error as opposed to an INF (which it is a one base error
This is incorrect. Typically on a ground ball, the runner has not yet reached first base. Hence, he is awarded first base and second base. Two bases.
Here is a description from the official MLB rule book if you want:
quote:
PLAY. Runner on first base, batter hits a ball to the shortstop, who throws to second base too late to get runner at second, and second baseman throws toward first base after batter has crossed first base. Ruling?: Runner at second scores. (On this play, only if batter-runner is past first base when throw is made is he awarded third base.)
1
Posted on 2/20/14 at 10:38 am to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
Then they screwed up.
You are correct here.
quote:
No it really wasn't. Once the coach picked up the ball, play is dead. Bregman did what he was supposed to...don't ever rely on the umps...but the play was dead & the umps got the call right in the end.
After the fact, yes. You are right, no one should EVER rely on the umps and should always bust it 100%. That's all I am saying. At the time, the play was not dead because the umpires did not rule it as such. Had he loafed it home and been tagged out and then the umpires got together and made a mistake after the fact, he would have been out. The play should have been treated live until the umpires said otherwise. They can still screw something up after the fact.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 10:44 am to LSUTygerFan
quote:
chaos ensued
That was Southeastern trying to cover their arse. Catcher and coach had a serious brain fart. They both know in baseball everything done with the ball is live until a ump calls time.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 10:53 am to CarRamrod
quote:
There is no timeout in baseball
Game [OFF] ON
Posted on 2/20/14 at 10:53 am to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
No it really wasn't. Once the coach picked up the ball, play is dead. Bregman did what he was supposed to...don't ever rely on the umps...but the play was dead & the umps got the call right in the end.
The catcher essentially threw the ball into a dead ball zone of the field. By rule, base runners should've been awarded 2 bases anyway.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:01 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:yep, 2 bases...I misspoke.
Typically on a ground ball, the runner has not yet reached first base. Hence, he is awarded first base and second base. Two bases.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:13 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:Did you even play baseball past little league? I understand what you are saying, no the play wasn't immediately ruled dead. But if the coach touched the ball, threw it back to the catcher and they tag Bregman out at home plate, that play would not have stood. The ball was dead as soon as the coach touched it, the call was just delayed because the umpire didn't realized what had happened.
PurpleAndGold86
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:16 am to Awesome All Day
quote:
Did you even play baseball past little league?
quote:
I understand what you are saying, no the play wasn't immediately ruled dead.
Ok then why you are trying to be a prick about it?
quote:
But if the coach touched the ball, threw it back to the catcher and they tag Bregman out at home plate, that play would not have stood. The ball was dead as soon as the coach touched it, the call was just delayed because the umpire didn't realized what had happened.
Yes. If it was that glaringly obvious, they would have gotten the call right. ALL I said was the runner shouldn't take anything for granted because the play isn't dead until the umpire rules it as such. What if he picked it up and dropped it at his feet and none of the umpires saw it? That is very legitimately possible since none of the umpires knew where the ball was at first.
That is 100% correct. I am not really sure how you can't grasp that.
This post was edited on 2/20/14 at 11:18 am
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:19 am to BRTIIGER58
basically its ruled as if the player threw the ball into the stands. everyone advances up a base. then its ruled a dead ball. in this case Bregman was already considered to be at third base, which is why his run counted.
This post was edited on 2/20/14 at 11:21 am
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:20 am to Tigerdew
quote:
The catcher essentially threw the ball into a dead ball zone of the field. By rule, base runners should've been awarded 2 bases anyway.
they were not awarded two bases. they were only awarded one.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:21 am to JBleezy
quote:
basically its ruled as if the player threw the ball into the stands. everyone advances up a base
If a live baseball is thrown in the stands, every runner advances two bases, not one.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:23 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
If a live baseball is thrown in the stands, every runner advances two bases, not one.
i think its you get the base you are approaching +1. But if the shortstop overthrows first the runner only goes to 2nd, not 3rd.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:25 am to bbap
quote:
But if the shortstop overthrows first the runner only goes to 2nd, not 3rd.
That is because he has not reached first base yet. He is awarded first base and second base in that situation. If he has already passed first base, he is awarded second + third.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:25 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
But if the shortstop overthrows first the runner only goes to 2nd, not 3rd.
That is because he has not reached first base yet.
sure he has in some cases. if he beats the throw he has reached first. then the throw goes into the stands. he's still only awarded second.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:26 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
If he has already passed first base, he is awarded second + third.
sorry i missed this part initially. ill take your word for it because i wasnt 1000% sure anyway.
with that said they only awarded 1 base last night.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:26 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:Why are you so sensitive? I wasn't trying to be a prick, just trying to educate you on the game. A simple thank you would suffice
Ok then why you are trying to be a prick about it?
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:29 am to bbap
quote:
with that said they only awarded 1 base last night.
Yep, because technically it was ruled dead because the coach picked the baseball up. The ball didn't really go out of play. He picked it up while it was still on the field.
Regardless, crazy freakin play. Always fun to have these debates after something crazy like that happens.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:36 am to bbap
quote:
i think its you get the base you are approaching +1. But if the shortstop overthrows first the runner only goes to 2nd, not 3rd.
from what I understand this is correct
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:49 am to JBleezy
It was impossible to know where the ball was when Bregman rounded third, but on the replay, he never broke stride as his eyes looked to be following the ball all the way.A heads up play on his part. Re the ump not calling anything, Rantz...for what that's worth, said that umps are taught to keep their hands down to their sides anytime a play is live; as well, Rantz said under that circumstance,only the home plate ump could call time for that specific reason,i.e. dead ball out of play. The ump's hands never moved. But what made that play even sweeter is the HC is a former Greenie. His first collegiate game as a HC and he pulls a bonehead play like that. FWIW: according to the Advocate, the catcher was getting rid of the ball because it was wet.
Posted on 2/20/14 at 11:52 am to Keltic Tiger
quote:
His first collegiate game as a HC
4th
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