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re: RPI Rant
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:01 pm to lsumatt
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:01 pm to lsumatt
The problem is that the NCAA selection committee et al probably see the RPI as encouraging good OOC matchups, which is good for the popularity of the game. Even if the RPI awarding losses over wins isn't the fairest way to judge team strength/accomplishments.
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Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:02 pm to josh336
quote:
MOV should only be taken into consideration in a loss, not a win
Why? Beating Alcorn State in OT is just as good as winning easily? Beating Duke by 30 isn't better than winning by 1?
I'm okay with computer rankings not including MOV at all (like in football). But you shouldn't be rewarded for losing to a team especially of MOV isn't included
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:04 pm to LuckyLee
quote:
They're just metrics to use to gain a much clearer picture than looking at a W-L column.
But there isn't an excuse for not having a better metric. Football uses complicated formulas and averages 6 of them. Why not do the same in bball?
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:04 pm to lsumatt
Georgetown [13-9 (4-7), RPI: 34, SOS: 2] If not for playing the country's second-toughest schedule, Georgetown probably wouldn't even be in the at-large discussion. The Hoyas are only 4-8 in their last 12 games, losing six of their last seven. Georgetown is 3-7 against RPI top-50 foes (wins at Connecticut and home against Memphis and Syracuse) and is 1-5 on the road.LINK
they have lost 6 of 7... i dont care if they played the celtics 7 times, an rpi of 34 is ridiculous!
they have lost 6 of 7... i dont care if they played the celtics 7 times, an rpi of 34 is ridiculous!
This post was edited on 2/12/09 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:04 pm to lsumatt
quote:
Why? Beating Alcorn State in OT is just as good as winning easily? Beating Duke by 30 isn't better than winning by 1?
I agree that it would be better ideally, but having MOV considered in wins will lead to running the score up, and in these times, people are too PC about things like this to let that happen.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:07 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Georgetown [13-9 (4-7), RPI: 34, SOS: 2]
RPI's like this one work against the RPI argument. It is better than anything else,but you'd think with all of the computer gurus someone could tweak it and make it more of a moving target.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:13 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Georgetown [13-9 (4-7), RPI: 34, SOS: 2] If not for playing the country's second-toughest schedule, Georgetown probably wouldn't even be in the at-large discussion.
I could say the exact opposite. If Gtown played chumps, they'd have a better record.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:28 pm to TigerNacho
quote:It would be a weak argument though.
One could make the argument that losing to Duke, rather than beating a cream puff shows some amount of effort and risk-taking (to play a tougher schedule) that should perhaps be rewarded
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:34 pm to LuckyLee
quote:
I could say the exact opposite. If Gtown played chumps, they'd have a better record.
Agreed. If they played the 120th toughest schedule in the country they'd probably be something like 19-4, 20-3, 21-2?
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:48 pm to VABuckeye
That breaks it down to the normal post-season argument, though. Do teams deserve to get into the post-season based more on their potential, or based more on what they're actually doing during the regular season.
Based on potential (based on salary), the Yankees deserve an automatic postseason berth in baseball. The Cowboys/Patriots/Steelers/et al deserve an automatic postseason berth in football. Fortunately, in those professional leagues it comes down to what you actually did during the regular season and not to a vote.
Unfortunately, in the college sports leagues, it comes down to voters/pollsters/committee members' opinions as well as results on the field. If the RPI can sway that opinion and it's a flawed system, that is not a good thing for the postseason of the sport.
Based on potential (based on salary), the Yankees deserve an automatic postseason berth in baseball. The Cowboys/Patriots/Steelers/et al deserve an automatic postseason berth in football. Fortunately, in those professional leagues it comes down to what you actually did during the regular season and not to a vote.
Unfortunately, in the college sports leagues, it comes down to voters/pollsters/committee members' opinions as well as results on the field. If the RPI can sway that opinion and it's a flawed system, that is not a good thing for the postseason of the sport.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:50 pm to VABuckeye
I bet Georgetown wishes it got to play Ohio State.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:50 pm to lsumatt
quote:
Here's the kicker, and I might be wrong, but I just did some back-of-the-envelope math and I think if you replace LSU's win over Alcorn State for example with a LOSS to Duke, our RPI goes up.
I was seriously wondering the other day whether our loss at home to Xavier was helping our RPI more than our win at Tennessee. Since the SOS only counts winning percentages and doesn't count what the team's ranking is, we don't get much credit for beating Tennessee even though they are highly ranked in the RPI ratings because their record is mediocre.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:52 pm to Nuts4LSU
RPI does factor in opponents' SOS.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 3:57 pm to LuckyLee
quote:
I could say the exact opposite. If Gtown played chumps, they'd have a better record.
You could say that, but you wouldn't say that based on statistical facts. Thus its an argument of a qualitative nature, which is fine. But it is messed up when the main statistical method used to rank teams by the selection committee is tweaked to emphasize that type of argument.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 4:00 pm to lsumatt
quote:
How can losing (w/o scoring margin included) EVER be evidence of your team strength.
I agree with your reasoning, and don't doubt your math, but maybe the example you chose is a rare anomaly that is mathematically possible only in conjunction with the other games on the team's schedule, but unlikely to occur often enough to actually mess up the rankings.
For instance, even assuming we would have gotten more out of a loss to Duke than we did out of our win over Alcorn, if you project those results over the whole season (i.e. 0-30 vs. a schedule of 30 games against Duke compared to 30-0 vs. a schedule of 30 games against Alcorn), do you think the 0-30 team would rate higher than the 30-0 team?
Posted on 2/12/09 at 4:02 pm to Nuts4LSU
Bracketoligist Jerry Palm will be on our radio show tomorrow and he may be able to shed some light on the RPI and Seedings and all that stuff.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 4:05 pm to Tigercat
quote:
But it is messed up when the main statistical method used to rank teams by the selection committee is tweaked to emphasize that type of argument.
Record and then RPI are the 2 most important measures I'd say. They also look at big wins and how a team has played down the stretch. Tenn has a substantially higher RPI than LSU, but I don't think anyone in his right mind would say Tenn is a better team than LSU.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 4:05 pm to TigerJohn
josh, can you get an interview with jaime lloreda lined up? k, thanks.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 4:06 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
I bet Georgetown wishes it got to play Ohio State.
Ohio State is 17-5 and 7-4 in the second or third toughest conference. They are ranked 24th, have an RPI of 19 and a SOS of 28. I think Georgetown would probably prefer to play an SEC team if they were looking for a win before playing a team with credentials.
Posted on 2/12/09 at 4:09 pm to TigerJohn
quote:
Bracketoligist Jerry Palm will be on our radio show tomorrow and he may be able to shed some light on the RPI and Seedings and all that stuff.
Can you ask him if it is possible that a loss to a top team (e.g. Duke) can improve your RPI? I would like to hear his response and what he thinks.
You will have to post his comments though
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