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re: One thing sure has become abundantly clear....
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:17 pm to Salmon
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:17 pm to Salmon
quote:
But he still manages the crap out of Kiffin. That much is certain.
Managing is different than controlling though. Compare how tightly Kiffin was reigned in during his first year there as opposed to now.
1
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:17 pm to HurricaneTiger
quote:Miles sabotaged this program by not evolving and thinking his way was the only way to go.
You're telling me Miles was; essentially, sabotaging our offense at every phase?
that's sabotage, and that's part of the reason why he got canned.
sometimes, you win in a loss. it doesn't make sense, but LSU won against auburn - after the game.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:19 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
Is that you have never been in a managerial position. The boss, however described may well ask for suggestions but ultimately it is his decision to make.
If every subordinate in an organization had is own way you would have chaos.
Look at it this way. Let's assume all the assistant coaches have this free rein you seem to think is so wonderful. The OC decides that the first play will be a deep pass to the right. The line coach disagrees and he instructs the line to fire out zone blocking, while the running backs coach instructs his charges to run a jet sweep to the wide side, while the QB coach thinks that a boot leg to the short side is just dandy. The receivers coach goes into a snit because he really wants a bubble screen.
Sounds productive doesn't it? The job of a manager is to accept suggestions from subordinates and then do what he thinks is best for the situation.
Actually, you're dead wrong on this. You must be "gray" from working as one of the old folks at McDonalds or as a Walmart greeter.
Take if from someone who has been in corporate management. You make the "big" decisions, but vital to your success is hiring capable mid-level managers and letting them manage.
I can give you a specific example of how this relates to a great head coach and his offensive line coach. This comes from the book, The Biggest Game of Them All, by Mike Celizic.
Before their national championship 1966 season, Ara Parseghian hired an offensive line coach who had an unorthodox zone blocking scheme of which AP was skeptical, though he was impressed by the coach's sense of detail.
AP said, "You really believe in this, don't you?"
Coach: "Yes, I do."
Ara: "Okay, you're hired. Implement your system and if it works, I will give you all the credit. But if it doesn't work, I will fire your arse immediately. Understand?"
That's how a real corporate executive, top manager operates. Miles apparently had problems with letting his coaches coach.
LSU football under his watch had become what Morgan Freeman's character in Shawshank Redemption called "institutionalized," where a lifer prisoner was afraid of life on the outside since prison was all he knew.
We were constantly told by pumpers like you to be very afraid--"What if we fire Miles and end up worse?!!?"
I think anyone with any sense is now glad Alleva finally made the move.
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:19 pm to Salmon
I know they will never admit in public they were worse with Miles but all the comments scream they know they were being held back.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:20 pm to Salmon
quote:
But he still manages the crap out of Kiffin. That much is certain.
True, but managing and meddling are two different things.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:22 pm to lsuhunt555
quote:
True, but managing and meddling are two different things.
well if it is successful it is managing, and if it doesn't work then it turns into meddling
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:23 pm to The Egg
quote:
Miles sabotaged this program by not evolving and thinking his way was the only way to go.
Yeah unfortunately for LSU Miles had a background on the offensive side of the ball.
When you compare him to someone like Saban, I believe there is little doubt that Saban has his hands all over that defense considering it is his background. Hell, most people are cautious about hiring his defensive coordinators for that exact reason. Saban doesn't have the offensive background so he's more open to change there.
Miles did the same thing on the offensive side of the ball, and by most accounts left the defense alone for the most part. He was doing what he thought was best, unfortunately he was quite wrong.
Miles and Saban, like most coaches at this level, are thoroughly arrogant and aren't willing to change in areas where they feel as though they're an expert. Saban is in fact an expert on the defensive side of the ball, so he won't change there and has made it clear that he'd rather change the rules of the game than adapt his defense. Miles had the same approach to offense, but he was just wrong. Very wrong.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:24 pm to themunch
I think Mizzou will win at least 3 maybe 4 more
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:26 pm to Damone
quote:
In a few games Miles will be scorned by all LSU fans. The amount of talent squandered is just insane.
FIFY
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:27 pm to timlan2057
Even if our next head coach pulls a Brady Hoke, we try it again with someone else. I'm so glad Les Miles is gone.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:27 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:What you have described is the job of the OC, not the head coach. And according to Coach O what happened is exactly what you describe. All of the assistant coaches got together and came up with a "game plan"! Ever heard of that?
Sounds productive doesn't it? The job of a manager is to accept suggestions from subordinates and then do what he thinks is best for the situation.
What people are complaining about is that the input was from people who had knowledge and skills in their area and they were being controlled and voted down by someone who did not.
Does a manager rewrite a computer programmer's code? No, because he knows nothing about it. A manager defines goals and the others do the nuts and bolts things to accomplish this.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:28 pm to The Egg
quote:
the shite that comes out afterwards...goddamnit les
i tried telling people. It will only get worse and make you angrier once what we said for years was happening is confirmed. Now it is!
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:29 pm to slackster
I guess my point is that is that the termination of Miles and Cam likely lit a fire under the entire staff's arse. These changes we see could be what the remaining staff always wanted or it could be them making changes because they heard the message loud and clear that changes were needed across the board.
Riiight that is why they argued with him over what needed to be done. And now that they finally have the power to fix the shite show they go out and fix the shite show. It is more apparent now that those two are gone that THEY were the weight around the neck of the LSU offense!
Any entertainment of anything else is delusional. Have you not been watching the games and listing to the coaches? Do you not realize high school teams typically put together better game plans then LSU did under Les and Cam?
The rest of the staff didn't all of a sudden get football smarts for fear for their job. If that were the case they would have gotten that message last year.
quote:
I'm not really arguing against the idea that Miles meddled, but rather offering a different explanation. I also know for a fact that Stud made all of the OL personnel decisions during his time here and Coach Frank Wilson did the same for the RBs during his tenure. As the seat got hotter for Miles perhaps he clamped down and started to micromanage things. In fact, if I was a betting man that would be my explanation for the last few years.
Riiight that is why they argued with him over what needed to be done. And now that they finally have the power to fix the shite show they go out and fix the shite show. It is more apparent now that those two are gone that THEY were the weight around the neck of the LSU offense!
Any entertainment of anything else is delusional. Have you not been watching the games and listing to the coaches? Do you not realize high school teams typically put together better game plans then LSU did under Les and Cam?
The rest of the staff didn't all of a sudden get football smarts for fear for their job. If that were the case they would have gotten that message last year.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:29 pm to slackster
quote:
He was doing what he thought was best, unfortunately he was quite wrong.
Reading that he meddled so much in the OL is hilarious. He played and coached OL, you'd think he would be good at it. Yet his lines were so inconsistent and he produced one first round-caliber OL talent in his time here.
Maybe he was a good OL coach at one time and rose to OC and HC jobs bc of the Peter Principle.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:30 pm to slackster
quote:
Granted, it is perfectly plausible that Miles micromanaged certain position groups and now that he's out of the way everyone can do as they see fit, but it could also be because most of the staff may be unemployed in 2 months.
or a combination of the two. in an autocratic organization it doesn't even have to be micromanagement; the sycophants extend the coaches will. as in "this is the Miles wants it so let's just do it w/o consulting him). I feel strongly that there was some coaching dissension on this team. and not there isn't. I think cam was the damn sychophant and Les treated him like his pet. probably why Chavis left.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:30 pm to Skillet
quote:needs to be written on a chalkboard repeatedly.
I'm so glad Les Miles is gone.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:31 pm to Salmon
quote:
well if it is successful it is managing, and if it doesn't work then it turns into meddling
I disagree, but you're right its partially playing the results.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:31 pm to timlan2057
If I could give you 1,000 upvotes, I would.
This yo yo (Gray Tiger) is trying to lecture a horrible business model. I have worked for 4 different companies. Three of those companies had a micromanager for a leader. One did not. Care to guess which one operates more like a well-oiled machine?
I always figured Miles had his hand in the offense, but had no idea to what extent of a micromanager he was across the program. Man I underestimated big time!
This yo yo (Gray Tiger) is trying to lecture a horrible business model. I have worked for 4 different companies. Three of those companies had a micromanager for a leader. One did not. Care to guess which one operates more like a well-oiled machine?
I always figured Miles had his hand in the offense, but had no idea to what extent of a micromanager he was across the program. Man I underestimated big time!
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:32 pm to Skillet
quote:
Even if our next head coach pulls a Brady Hoke, we try it again with someone else. I'm so glad Les Miles is gone.
correct! give him a couple years and if he fails cut bait and go fishing again. Thing is we SHOULD make a very good strong hire this go around and be ok. Nobody is asking to replicate saban. Just get to atlanta once every 3 years to give us a shot at a sec title and maybe a natty. that was done here and exceeded by saban and miles up until 2008. after that it...well you know.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:34 pm to RealityTiger
gray tiger is a moron, pay him no mind. I'm almost convinced he is Les.
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