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Misconceptions about the 90s, Nebraska football, Tennessee and others
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:51 pm
All I have been hearing in regards to Les Miles and his removal as head football coach has been in some form or fashion about the 90s, about Nebraska and Tennessee and how LSU is dooming itself. I think people need some real perspective of not so much what happened with all those things but why and how LSU isn't even close to them.
The 90s happened for one reason, LSU was cheap. Go all the way back to Dietzel. We get this coach who is an elite level coach. He leaves to go coach at Army and we go cheap and hire one of his assistants Cholly Mac. People say remember the 90s, hell do y'all remember the 60s/70s. Almost twenty years of Cholly and 1!!!!! SEC title. He kept winning 7-9 games and put us right in the middle of championship ball club and losing record. At least when Archer screwed the pooch he got booted after 2 bad seasons, and Hallman after 4 and DiNardo after 2. Losing creates change to attempt to right the ship. Mediocre winning creates stagnant long term mediocrity.
Again however, the 90s happened because we wouldn't spend the money Arnsparger wanted in the program, otherwise we couldn't beat the Nebraskas of the world. So he bolts and we go cheap with his DC thinking hey it will work. Only briefly because of talent Arnsparger had recruited. Archer was gone after 4 and what does LSU do? Goes cheap again with the Southern Miss coach who stinks out the joint. We go cheap again with Vandys coach, but luckily DiNardo wasn't a complete waste as he showed us by locking down the state we could be top notch. It took Saban to come in and get LSU to finally spend the money.
As far as Nebraska, they fell off for two reasons. They ran the frickin option for decades and brought in a west coast pass attack. They were bound to be struggle for at least a few years. Secondly and this is the most important part, they South and West Coast closed the fences. Same thing that happened to a lot of power schools.
LSU's recruiting and facilities are even now being upgraded and added too by Alleva. The stadium is nicer than a lot of pro ones and holds over 100k. We will continue to lock down the state. Something we didn't do under Archer or Hallman or even Cholly Mac.
And if we are willing to buy out Miles and pay someone like Jimbo 5 mil clearly we aren't going cheap.
The 90s happened for one reason, LSU was cheap. Go all the way back to Dietzel. We get this coach who is an elite level coach. He leaves to go coach at Army and we go cheap and hire one of his assistants Cholly Mac. People say remember the 90s, hell do y'all remember the 60s/70s. Almost twenty years of Cholly and 1!!!!! SEC title. He kept winning 7-9 games and put us right in the middle of championship ball club and losing record. At least when Archer screwed the pooch he got booted after 2 bad seasons, and Hallman after 4 and DiNardo after 2. Losing creates change to attempt to right the ship. Mediocre winning creates stagnant long term mediocrity.
Again however, the 90s happened because we wouldn't spend the money Arnsparger wanted in the program, otherwise we couldn't beat the Nebraskas of the world. So he bolts and we go cheap with his DC thinking hey it will work. Only briefly because of talent Arnsparger had recruited. Archer was gone after 4 and what does LSU do? Goes cheap again with the Southern Miss coach who stinks out the joint. We go cheap again with Vandys coach, but luckily DiNardo wasn't a complete waste as he showed us by locking down the state we could be top notch. It took Saban to come in and get LSU to finally spend the money.
As far as Nebraska, they fell off for two reasons. They ran the frickin option for decades and brought in a west coast pass attack. They were bound to be struggle for at least a few years. Secondly and this is the most important part, they South and West Coast closed the fences. Same thing that happened to a lot of power schools.
LSU's recruiting and facilities are even now being upgraded and added too by Alleva. The stadium is nicer than a lot of pro ones and holds over 100k. We will continue to lock down the state. Something we didn't do under Archer or Hallman or even Cholly Mac.
And if we are willing to buy out Miles and pay someone like Jimbo 5 mil clearly we aren't going cheap.
12
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:55 pm to WalkingTurtles
quote:
and Tennessee and how LSU is dooming itself. I think people need some real perspective of not so
Ive heard keeping les will drive us and doom us well. ...are we fricked both ways?
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:56 pm to fightingtiger2335
LSU is doomed no matter what apparently
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:56 pm to WalkingTurtles
Great post. Everything you say sounds in truth. But it's almost impossible to educate some of the frantic, fatalistic fans here.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:58 pm to WalkingTurtles
Agreed.
We are about to go on a dynasty run. Can't wait.
This will be a case study for ADs in the next few years on how to avoid falling into stagnation and Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden scenarios. Very proactive and I support it 100%.
We are about to go on a dynasty run. Can't wait.
This will be a case study for ADs in the next few years on how to avoid falling into stagnation and Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden scenarios. Very proactive and I support it 100%.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:59 pm to blowmeauburn
quote:
Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden scenarios.
Lazy lazy lazy statement..almost as lazy as macks and bobbys recruiting became and explained why they never came back up
Posted on 11/27/15 at 4:59 pm to WalkingTurtles
To illustrate how cheap LSU was at the time, DiNardo lost his last game for Vandy 65-0. fricking Joe Dean.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 5:06 pm to WalkingTurtles
Realizing I never made my point about Tennessee was pretty much they replaced Fulmer a NC coach with Derek Dooley, a cheap Saban guy who was barely consistent at La Tech. Going cheap after an elite coach always spells doom. And also there recruiting fell off because of the rise of Alabama again.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 5:07 pm to WalkingTurtles
That's a nice post, with some actual historical perspective.
Burke's book on Saban is interesting where he describes the interview. Saban's first question, "Why aren't you winning?" Made no sense to him, with that recruiting base that we weren't.
Just b/c we had not seized the advantage that we had and demanded having an elite program doesn't mean it was only possible under the last two coaches.
I remember it well, there were actually people on message boards like this one arguing to keep Dinardo.
Burke's book on Saban is interesting where he describes the interview. Saban's first question, "Why aren't you winning?" Made no sense to him, with that recruiting base that we weren't.
Just b/c we had not seized the advantage that we had and demanded having an elite program doesn't mean it was only possible under the last two coaches.
I remember it well, there were actually people on message boards like this one arguing to keep Dinardo.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 8:49 pm to artistfkacvbc
It took Saban asking why aren't you building this and that and recruiting. LSU didn't know WTF they were doing with football.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:01 pm to WalkingTurtles
quote:
As far as Nebraska, they fell off for two reasons. They ran the frickin option for decades and brought in a west coast pass attack. They were bound to be struggle for at least a few years. Secondly and this is the most important part, they South and West Coast closed the fences. Same thing that happened to a lot of power schools.
You don't know what you are talking about. Solich had one semi down year after Nebraska had experienced years of success. The fan base hated the dude because he wasn't tom Osborne so they foamed at the mouth and demanded his head.
They got it and it destroyed their program.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:06 pm to drizztiger
quote:
fricking Joe Dean.
Dean was AD from '87 to 2000. from 1960 to 1987, LSU had 2 seasons with less than 5 wins. 8 of the 13 under Dean had 5 wins or less.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:07 pm to WalkingTurtles
The irony of this is that we went and hired the young up and coming coach Bo Rien and did what it took to get Bill Arnsbarger. Only to get away from this model to going back to trying to make a "value" hire.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:08 pm to WalkingTurtles
quote:
It took Saban asking why aren't you building this and that
that is not correct. Emmert had already started rebuilding the infrastructure a year before he hired saban
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:25 pm to More&Les
Sorry bud but a school that had just won 3 out of 4 National Championships and played for a bunch of them in the 80s and 90s, 16-10(8-8 BIG XII) the last two years, won't cut it. Solich was getting blown out by Gary Barnett towards the end. Hell Nebraska never recovered from that Rose Bowl beat down.
Also the writing on the wall was there regarding the recruiting issues. USC was sucking all the California kids up, Texas and Oklahoma were back in title contention and the SEC was locking up the South.
Also the writing on the wall was there regarding the recruiting issues. USC was sucking all the California kids up, Texas and Oklahoma were back in title contention and the SEC was locking up the South.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:26 pm to WalkingTurtles
quote:
Secondly and this is the most important part, they South and West Coast closed the fences. Same thing that happened to a lot of power schools.
I'd agree with you for the most part, but honestly ESPN is what happened to Schools like Nebraska and Miami. Once everyone got on TV, those schools lost a huge recruiting edge.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:28 pm to WalkingTurtles
quote:
And if we are willing to buy out Miles and pay someone like Jimbo 5 mil clearly we aren't going cheap.
if someone truly thinks this. There is no way in hell that we're opening up the checkbook to the successor. The new guy is going to be cheap, so I suggest you get used to that idea.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:32 pm to elprez00
Any mention of Nebraska is stupid. Nebraska has zero in state talent.
Once they lost the ability to pull in the Texas partial qualifiers that Texas and a&m couldn't enroll, they were done.
Add in the conference switch and they don't play in Texas 2-3 times a year and can't pull as many guys in.
Once they lost the ability to pull in the Texas partial qualifiers that Texas and a&m couldn't enroll, they were done.
Add in the conference switch and they don't play in Texas 2-3 times a year and can't pull as many guys in.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 9:33 pm to More&Les
quote:
You don't know what you are talking about. Solich had one semi down year after Nebraska had experienced years of success. The fan base hated the dude because he wasn't tom Osborne so they foamed at the mouth and demanded his head.
They got it and it destroyed their program.
No, you don't know what you are talking about. Texas was emerging under Mack. Oklahoma was becoming a power. And USC was emerging, cutting off the the California and Texas pipelines that enabled Osborne to make Nebraska such a powerhouse. How many big-time recruits ever come out of the state of Nebraska? Hardly any. That's why Nebraska sucks. Not because "karma" hates them, because their fans are "spoiled."
The situation at Nebraska is nothing like LSU's current one.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 9:38 pm
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