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Started By
Message
Posted on 5/5/15 at 10:35 pm to ell_13
Here is a question for you. It is a trap.
Do you know who ranks high school players before the draft?
Do you know who ranks high school players before the draft?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 10:36 pm to Asllan
Second question.
Do you know who "rates" high school players before the draft?
Do you know who "rates" high school players before the draft?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 10:37 pm to Asllan
Third Question.
Do you know the difference in ranking and rating?
Do you know the difference in ranking and rating?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 10:38 pm to Asllan
Fourth question.
Do you know what percentage of the MLB draftees were high school players?
Do you know what percentage of the MLB draftees were high school players?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:01 pm to Asllan
Read closely tool. Two high school pitchers signed with LSU. One was taken by a major league team in the 11th round. The other went undrafted through 40 rounds. These are facts. Do the math!
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:02 pm to LSUgrad88
What exactly are you trying to argue and/or refute? Serious question.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:13 pm to lsu2006
It began with these two arguing Lange was a higher rated prospect coming out of high school than either Latz or Marshall. When I pointed out that Latz was drafted in the 11th round and Marshall in the 21st round and Lange went undrafted, it was then explained to me that the scouts still rated Lange higher, though no reason was offered. I found that line of thinking amazingly stupid, even for the Rant.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:42 pm to LSUgrad88
I don't follow recruiting/scouting/the draft anywhere near as closely as many people on here but my understanding of how "the scouts" looked at Marshall, Latz and Lange was essentially this. Again, I could be wrong:
1. Marshall
2a. Latz
2b. Lange
Signability plays a huge role, as I think you've conceded. Not sure why you're getting so angry, either way.
1. Marshall
2a. Latz
2b. Lange
Signability plays a huge role, as I think you've conceded. Not sure why you're getting so angry, either way.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:43 pm to LSUgrad88
I'm not saying Lange was more highly rated or regarded but the draft, especially for a high school player, is a terrible way to judge who was more highly thought of when you get out of the top 10 rounds.
Under the current CBA "signability" doesn't mean what it used to, it's all a numbers game. Slot values and pool limits play a bigger part than they ever have before.
If I'm not mistaken Katz went undrafted after his junior year and went in the 4th round after his senior year. Do you think his junior year was so bad that he wasn't worth taking a late flier on? Do you think he did enough his senior year to improve his stock by 36 rounds?
Under the current CBA "signability" doesn't mean what it used to, it's all a numbers game. Slot values and pool limits play a bigger part than they ever have before.
If I'm not mistaken Katz went undrafted after his junior year and went in the 4th round after his senior year. Do you think his junior year was so bad that he wasn't worth taking a late flier on? Do you think he did enough his senior year to improve his stock by 36 rounds?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:47 pm to lsu2006
I would agree with your assessment, and the facts would support that. Most agree Marshall was pretty adamant it would take a lot for him to sign, which pushed him down in rounds.
I get upset because I don't care for posts which attack other people's opinions without offering anything to back it up. I realize Ell was really just trolling hoping to get someone, anyone to exchange posts with him. The other guy was a tool.
I get upset because I don't care for posts which attack other people's opinions without offering anything to back it up. I realize Ell was really just trolling hoping to get someone, anyone to exchange posts with him. The other guy was a tool.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 11:55 pm to MOT
I can't know exactly what scouts are thinking. But I can make a reasonable judgment that, if I have two pitchers who both committed to the same college team, and one was drafted in the 11th round, and one went undrafted after 40 rounds, the one who was drafted in the 11th round was more highly thought of. Its not like one went in the 33rd round and the other went undrafted. There were several hundred pitchers taken after Latz went in the 11th. Lange wasn't one of them. Doesn't mean Lange won't turn out to be better, or even that the scouts weren't dead wrong, but its kind of ridiculous to argue who was more highly rated.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 6:09 am to LSUgrad88
Trolling? You just agreed with me and said you have no clue how scouts think. You just agreed and said you understand signability plays a factor. Yet when I first made that post, you attack me over my post count which really only proves you got nothing. So who's the troll? Am I really supposed to take you seriously after that?
Posted on 5/6/15 at 7:11 am to MOT
If I remember correctly after Katz junior year he said don't even bother wasting a pick on him because he was coming back to LSU for his senior year
Posted on 5/6/15 at 7:50 am to Drakeo1990
That's what his guy doesn't understand. The relationship between where a guy is drafted and his scout rating don't always match up and for a multitude of reasons. Latz and Pap are a good example of extra dynamics. They both expressed they wanted to go to college but part of that was to play together. So Toronto takes both of them in the hopes that they could use that to steal them away. What if they hadn't expressed that they wanted to go to college? What if they were never on the same team and playing together meant nothing? What if one wanted to go to college but the other really didn't? Depending on these "ifs", Latz could have gone well inside the top ten to going undrafted completely.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 8:19 am to LSUgrad88
Lange was always highly thought of in his class.
Mac Marshall was a circuit rat, his name was out there early and often (many times than not getting your name out at a young age snowballs by your senior year). Was a 1-3 round prospect. Drafted Rd 20
Jake Latz was an above average lefty who's velocity blossomed and gained a ton of attention around his junior year. He was a 6-10 round prospect. Drafted Rd 11
Alex Lange was always a solid arm in showcases, didn't have the plus plus velocity or throw from the left side so his commodity wasn't thought of as cream of the crop. As a senior was anywhere from 8-15 round prospect. Undrafted
Jake Godfrey was a rising sophomore who had a phenomenal junior season where his fastball was mid nineties. After a subpar senior season his stock dropped but was still a 4-12 round prospect. Drafted Rd 21
I think people forget that ALL 4 of these arms were extremely high potential draft risks a year ago, all took different paths to end up at LSU last August. You can't exactly look at what round a prospect is taken above all else when evaluating how they grade out as a whole. With Dunn and LSU's reputation for getting pitchers into large singing bonuses that played a major role on "how signable" these kids were and is why they ALL were selected lower than their grade.
Mac Marshall was a circuit rat, his name was out there early and often (many times than not getting your name out at a young age snowballs by your senior year). Was a 1-3 round prospect. Drafted Rd 20
Jake Latz was an above average lefty who's velocity blossomed and gained a ton of attention around his junior year. He was a 6-10 round prospect. Drafted Rd 11
Alex Lange was always a solid arm in showcases, didn't have the plus plus velocity or throw from the left side so his commodity wasn't thought of as cream of the crop. As a senior was anywhere from 8-15 round prospect. Undrafted
Jake Godfrey was a rising sophomore who had a phenomenal junior season where his fastball was mid nineties. After a subpar senior season his stock dropped but was still a 4-12 round prospect. Drafted Rd 21
I think people forget that ALL 4 of these arms were extremely high potential draft risks a year ago, all took different paths to end up at LSU last August. You can't exactly look at what round a prospect is taken above all else when evaluating how they grade out as a whole. With Dunn and LSU's reputation for getting pitchers into large singing bonuses that played a major role on "how signable" these kids were and is why they ALL were selected lower than their grade.
This post was edited on 5/6/15 at 8:22 am
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