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Message
re: LSU 91 Queensland 88 - Final Stats
Posted on 8/18/15 at 11:58 am to thunderbird1100
Posted on 8/18/15 at 11:58 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
He basically was a non factor the last part of the season, his minutes decreased severely while Patterson's shot up.
Yea, he played more, but there were still several games where Gray played over 20 minutes. You know why? Because JP isn't a PG. TQ was playing 30 minutes a game, as well...and TQ was running PG.
quote:
I'll take last SEASON'S performance over a few non-collegiate games in Australia as a true measure of shooters and who is better with the ball.
In case you didn't know, I can throw some stats at you.
JP: 24.5 MPG, 6.8 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.2 apg, .8 to, 1.2 spg, 40.8% FG
JG: 24.8 mpg, 7.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.6 to, 1.0 spg, 39.6% FG
The point is, that when you really peel back the stats, they tell you a different tale. Everyone expected Gray to drop 20 points and 10 assists so they're viewed differently. JP was way more steady than Gray, I'll give you that. However, there were games that Gray literally was instrumental in winning. Yes, he had bad games too...which is why I said inconsistent.
You can't say Gray had a bad year and JP had a good year, unless you concede that Gray has more potential and ability and didn't perform to expectations.
quote:
Huh? He played a ton of PG especially when Gray's minutes vanished. Way way more than "once or twice". He played some PG role in just about any game he played in, increasingly when Gray sat the bench more and more.
That simply isn't true. Tim Quarterman played Point Guard every time Gray was on the bench. Gray ONLY played PG when he was in the game. Not once were Gray and TQ on the bench at the same time
And I hate taking this position because I really like Patterson. But some of this is just false.
This post was edited on 8/18/15 at 11:59 am
3
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:24 pm to LSUButt
quote:
You can't say Gray had a bad year and JP had a good year, unless you concede that Gray has more potential and ability and didn't perform to expectations.
Uh, sure you can
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:27 pm to TigerBait1127
Their stats are practically identical. It's only because of the expectations placed on Gray, and the lack of expectations on Patterson
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:34 pm to LSUButt
quote:
Yea, he played more, but there were still several games where Gray played over 20 minutes. You know why? Because JP isn't a PG. TQ was playing 30 minutes a game, as well...and TQ was running PG.
Look at Patterson's minutes by game vs. Gray's as last season progressed. You will find a strong correlation or less Gray & more Patterson.
Patterson played 25 or minutes in 11 of the final 12 games of the season, 9 of those were 31 minutes or more.
By comparison Gray played 25 minutes or less in 11 of those 12 games. 7 of those were under 20 minutes with 2 being in the SINGLE digits.
And JP can and absolutely DID play plenty of PG. Just because he doesnt create much doesnt mean he isn't a PG. He handled the ball in a lot of situations in games.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:40 pm to thunderbird1100
Compare that to Quarterman, who DID definitely play PG over Patterson. Everyone knows that Gray ran the point when he was on the floor because he can't play off the ball. When it was TQ and Patterson on the floor, Quarterman handled the ball.
I'm not using this as my reasoning at all. I'm using the fact that I watched every single game and saw Patterson not bring the ball up the court and run the offense...because Gray and TQ did.
quote:
Just because he doesnt create much doesnt mean he isn't a PG. He handled the ball in a lot of situations in games.
I'm not using this as my reasoning at all. I'm using the fact that I watched every single game and saw Patterson not bring the ball up the court and run the offense...because Gray and TQ did.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:43 pm to LSUButt
quote:
In case you didn't know, I can throw some stats at you.
JP: 24.5 MPG, 6.8 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.2 apg, .8 to, 1.2 spg, 40.8% FG
JG: 24.8 mpg, 7.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.6 to, 1.0 spg, 39.6% FG
The point is, that when you really peel back the stats
Yes, let's peel back the stats, especially the ones you didn't mention.
LINK
LINK
As you will notice, Gray took A LOT less 3 pointers than Patterson (53 vs. 118). He also was much more miserable shooting 3's than Patterson (26.4% vs. 37.3%). Gray also shot worse from 2 than Patterson (43.9% vs. 47.0%). not to mention Patterson once again blowing away Gray on free throws.
What this all equates to is Gray's true shot percentage being a miserable 45.0% with an effective FG % of 42.9%. Compare that to Jalyn Patterson who had a true shot percentage of 54.4% and an effective FG % of 52.7%. So not only was Gray much more careless with the basketball than Patterson (much worse Ast:TO ratio), he also was worse in every way when it came to shooting the ball in any factor.
If you quantify every statistic and come up with a PER for each player, Josh Gray was at 9.5 which is pretty terrible and Jalyn Patterson was at 14.3 which is respectable (especially for a true freshman).
The tow are not comparable at all, Patterson had a MUCH MUCH better season and is the reason why Gray's minutes got replaced with Patterson as the season went along.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:43 pm to memphisplaya
quote:
Simmons: 18 Pts, 12 boards, 10 turnovers Triple double!
Pistol Pete had 18 turnovers one game for us once so I'm not jumping off a cliff yet. In fact that's why this trip is so great, we can expose weaknesses early and address them.
You play a slew of Southland and SWAC teams as we often do that doesn't really happen.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:45 pm to LSUButt
quote:
I'm not using this as my reasoning at all. I'm using the fact that I watched every single game and saw Patterson not bring the ball up the court and run the offense...because Gray and TQ did.
He handled the ball plenty of times in almost any game he was in, especially later in the year when Gray vanished. Im not sure what you were watching. JJ said himself he likes Patterson handling the ball, he's very careful with it.
It should be a blatant flag to you he played quite a bit of point because Gray's minutes vanished while his went up as the season progressed. It's not like Quarterman was the PG 100% of the time. We play combo guards, Patterson played the 1 and 2, it's hardly like he almost exclusively played the 2. You're flat wrong there.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:46 pm to LSUButt
quote:
Their stats are practically identical.
No, not even close. You're not looking at true measure of a player, just some raw stats.
Patterson had a much better AST:TO ratio than Gray, he shot way better from 3, way better from the line and better from 2. His Player Efficiency Rating was about 50% better than Gray's.
This post was edited on 8/18/15 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:54 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
We play combo guards, Patterson played the 1 and 2, it's hardly like he almost exclusively played the 2. You're flat wrong there.
No...No I'm not. But ok, bud. Guess we will see when the season starts, since Gray is not even in Australia and Patterson's numbers are limited. Guess Gray just won't ever step foot on the court.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:55 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:He also had 11 fouls drawn, which is a great stat that I really wished we kept here in the US>
I tweeted that at Kent Lowe... He was two steals from a quad double.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 12:59 pm to mmcgrath
I love fouls drawn stat. 
Posted on 8/18/15 at 1:00 pm to LSUButt
quote:
No...No I'm not.
Yes you are and others have pointed out you are. Clearly you weren't watching what we all watched last year. When Gray was disappearing off the court Pattersontook a lot of those minutes at the 1. To say Quarterman essentially exclusively played the 1 when Gray wasn't in there is 100% wrong. You really think Patterson averaged 2.2 asts in 24 minutes a game just playing the shooter role? Really?
This post was edited on 8/18/15 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 8/18/15 at 1:03 pm to LSUButt
Don't overreact Butt.
At the end of the day, they are two totally different players, but you definitely didn't look at the whole picture when you posted those side by side stats.
I have been very hopeful that Gray would come together because I think his dribbling skills are second to none. It's like theres a string between his hands and the floor that the ball stays on, but he hasn't developed alot of the necessary skills.
I think Patterson is better off ball but I also think he is more than capable of taking minutes everywhere 1-3.
At the end of the day, they are two totally different players, but you definitely didn't look at the whole picture when you posted those side by side stats.
I have been very hopeful that Gray would come together because I think his dribbling skills are second to none. It's like theres a string between his hands and the floor that the ball stays on, but he hasn't developed alot of the necessary skills.
I think Patterson is better off ball but I also think he is more than capable of taking minutes everywhere 1-3.
Posted on 8/18/15 at 2:43 pm to SouthOfSouth
I'm not worried about Patterson. At no point last season was he ever overwhelmed and I would contend that outside of maybe Quarterman, he hit the most big shots for LSU. There were numerous times an opponent was starting to get on a run, only for Patterson to bury a three to stop the momentum. No one was more clutch than him against Ark.
Unfortunately for him, he is a bit of the odd man out this year. Blakeney (at least from what we've seen so far) is just too good to keep off the court. I still think Patterson is going to have his share of big shots though.
Gray has ability that many don't have. There isn't an SEC guard that can stay in front of him. The problem is that he struggles big time in slow paced games. It's not coincidence that his best games were all against opponents who wanted to run with LSU (UMass, WVU, Ole Miss, Ark.) Maybe with really no inside scoring presence this year the court floor gets spread wider and Gray is more in his element.
One thing is for certain. IF LSU can find someone who can rebound (along with Simmons) they are going to run like the 80's Lakers!
Unfortunately for him, he is a bit of the odd man out this year. Blakeney (at least from what we've seen so far) is just too good to keep off the court. I still think Patterson is going to have his share of big shots though.
Gray has ability that many don't have. There isn't an SEC guard that can stay in front of him. The problem is that he struggles big time in slow paced games. It's not coincidence that his best games were all against opponents who wanted to run with LSU (UMass, WVU, Ole Miss, Ark.) Maybe with really no inside scoring presence this year the court floor gets spread wider and Gray is more in his element.
One thing is for certain. IF LSU can find someone who can rebound (along with Simmons) they are going to run like the 80's Lakers!
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