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Message
re: Johnny Jones criticism is BS
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:40 am to HSHoopscoach
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:40 am to HSHoopscoach
quote:
Johnny Jones criticism is BS
Is it....?
3 NCAA First Round appearances in 14 seasons....behind the 8-ball with hands down the best player in the country...
North Texas:
quote:
2001–02 North Texas 15–14 4th (West)
2002–03 North Texas 7–21 6th (West)
2003–04 North Texas 13–15 3rd (West)
2004–05 North Texas 14–14 T–4th (West)
2005–06 North Texas 14–14 T–4th (West)
2006–07 North Texas 23–11 3rd (West) NCAA First Round
2007–08 North Texas 20–11 3rd (West)
2008–09 North Texas 20–12 2nd (West)
2009–10 North Texas 24–9 1st (West) NCAA First Round
2010–11 North Texas 22–11 4th (West)
2011–12 North Texas 18–14 4th (West)
190–146 (.565) 91–88 (.508)
LSU:
quote:
2012–13 LSU 19–12 9–9 T–8th
2013–14 LSU 20–14 9–9 T–6th NIT Second Round
2014–15 LSU 22–11 11–7 T–3rd NCAA First Round
2015–16 LSU 4–4
61–37 (.622) 29–25 (.537)
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 7:40 am
1
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:46 am to burgeman
quote:
I do not understand the hate for Dale Brown
Honestly, I'm not one of the nostalgic, Dale was great folks here, but out of respect to the one's who are (and there are plenty) I try to stay away from venting my issues on Dale.
But one think I'll give Dale, he could motivate, at least when he thought he was an underdog and he could always convince himself and his team he was, even when we weren't. That is until he got Shaq, Stanley and Chris.
IMHO, CJJ seems to have some issues motivating, i.e. getting the kids to listen to him consistently and play hard consistently.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 7:55 am
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:54 am to patchesohoulihan_007
quote:
Be patient, JJ will bring these kids together and we will be a force to be reckoned with later in the season
You could be right. But we could also be lugging around 9/10 losses by then too which severely damages our chances to get in the NCAA tourney. I would prefer not to HAVE TO win the SEC Tourney to get into the big dance.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 7:56 am to shiftworker
quote:
If this team makes it to the tourney it will be by the skin of their teeth and based solely on talented players maturing.
So even if we do make a great run into the tourney, you're already saying it has nothing to do with coaching? So all the bad is blamed on Jones, but all the good is credited to the players?
lol got it. Typical ranter.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:06 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
I do not understand the hate for Dale Brown
Dale was twice the coach than he gets credit for on here. Comparing JJ to him is laughable. Dale won 4 SEC titles, Jones won't even win one. Daddy Dale may have got outcoached by the Bobby Knights and the Denny Crum's, but he didn't get outcoached by the coach from the College of Charleston.
quote:
That is until he got Shaq, Stanley and Chris.
That one team that Brown always gets blasted for really didn't have enough time to gel. Shaq was a 17 year old freshman, Roberts was playing his first season of college ball, and CJ was trying to figure out how to fit in on a team where he didn't have to score 30 points a game, unlike his first year.
College basketball in 1989 was much different. You actually went against teams with great junior and senior players. Your opponents had played together for two or three years and knew how to play as a team. That LSU team had one year to figure it all out. Add to that, we were knocked out of the tournament in the 2nd round by another team with 3 NBA first round draft picks. Georgia Tech was not a chump team.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:13 am to HSHoopscoach
If your team can't get to the rim against the teams we are playing, it is coaching.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:17 am to Choupique19
quote:
Dale was twice the coach than he gets credit for on here. Comparing JJ to him is laughable. Dale won 4 SEC titles, Jones won't even win one. Daddy Dale may have got outcoached by the Bobby Knights and the Denny Crum's, but he didn't get outcoached by the coach from the College of Charleston.
The college game was different 30 years ago. Dale was ahead of his time with regard to recruiting...but that's about it. He was known for his crazy defensive schemes (which were really just gimmicks) during a time when defense really wasn't played at the same level it's played at today....nor were the players as athletic...nor was there as much parity. Almost apples to oranges.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 8:18 am
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:19 am to HSHoopscoach
quote:
sometimes teams simply play bad. trick is to simply right the ship in time.
if this team doesn't make the NCAA tourney, I'd have to agree with people concerning JJ's coaching ability.
But mark my words, we are going to the tourney and winning two games
Do you watch the games or just look at the boxscore? If the answer is the latter then I can understand how you could be somewhat optimistic.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:23 am to HSHoopscoach
quote:
sometimes teams simply play bad. trick is to simply right the ship in time.
quote:
HSHoopscoach
Solid analysis, coach
So detailed and well thought out
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:27 am to setinways12
In an 8 year stretch Dale Brown went to two Elite 8's and two Final Fours.
People that try to mock his time here need to check themselves. Could we have done better some years, yes. But LSU has been a dumpster fire for about 18 of the 21 or so years since he has been gone.
Johnny Jones would lose 10 out of 10 games to Dale Brown.
People that try to mock his time here need to check themselves. Could we have done better some years, yes. But LSU has been a dumpster fire for about 18 of the 21 or so years since he has been gone.
Johnny Jones would lose 10 out of 10 games to Dale Brown.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 8:32 am to HSHoopscoach
If...
then why...
If it's valid to blame him for the team playing badly enough to miss the NCAA tournament, then why isn't it valid to blame him for the team playing badly for the first 10 games of the season?
quote:
Johnny Jones criticism is BS
quote:
sometimes teams simply play bad.
then why...
quote:
if this team doesn't make the NCAA tourney, I'd have to agree with people concerning JJ's coaching ability.
If it's valid to blame him for the team playing badly enough to miss the NCAA tournament, then why isn't it valid to blame him for the team playing badly for the first 10 games of the season?
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:00 am to Choupique19
As expected, I'm getting beat like a red headed step-child for the post lol. If I were coach Jones I would also open myself up for criticism by breaking something, getting T'd up, and probably thrown out the game. It would be done to send a message to the youngsters, that some things will not be tolerated. Perhaps Jones has his own way of doing this.
Ya know, when someone says a team is 'well-coached' they are generally misdirecting the compliment. The credit should go to the coaches that spent years instilling the fundamentals, decision making, and approach to preparation the players exhibit as opposed to the coach who has gathered them together and has spent only a few months of regulated practice time with them.
Preseason I thought, as a head coach would, about what type of system this team ought to run. Regardless of the type of system a coach likes to run, - you simply cannot take a class like this and plug it into it. For the players were not chosen due to their particular attributes to fit into it.
LSU takes what it can get, for the program has been down for a while.
Last year's team was strong as hell in the interior. They were our best players. When the best players cannot make free-throws, one can expect to lose plenty of games in the waning minutes.
This year's team is young and stupid right now. Their strength is having a lot of talented guards and a big that likes to play guard also.
It will take a while for them to figure out how to translate this into wins for it is atypical.
"they can't rebound" = although there is merit to this; they're all out of position to rebound because they're playing on the perimeter in 4-guard sets- they have to figure it out
"no perimeter defense" = although there is merit to this; full-court presses give teams a free pass to penetrate after beating the press
This team needs:
1. more bodies on the ground
2. ben to play like he is [pissed-off
3. blankney off the bench
4. playing time for Epps and Victor
Quarterman
Hornsby
Simmons
Epps
Victor
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:07 am to LSUbase13
quote:
3 NCAA First Round appearances in 14 seasons....
Are you serious with this? He took North Texas to two ncaa tournaments. They are a historically bad program who had only been to one tournament previously.
So far at LSU he has had 19 wins, 20 wins and 22 wins. That is a trend that shows improvement any way you look at it. Lsu has 7 20 win seasons in the past 22 years and johnny jones has coached lsu to two straight. Sure this team is off to a bad start, but you people are crazy to want him fired ASAP. The season is far from over.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:17 am to HSHoopscoach
quote:
But mark my words, we are going to the tourney and winning two games
I've bookmarked this thread
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:19 am to T
quote:
So far at LSU he has had 19 wins, 20 wins and 22 wins. That is a trend that shows improvement any way you look at it.
Total wins can be deceiving, and that's why the selection committee looks so hard at strength of schedule.
Our OOC schedule is usually VERY weak, and is typically good for at least 10 wins.
The more relevant number is our conference record. In the SEC (which has been down in recent years) Jones has gone:
9-9
9-9
11-7
The 11-7 was certainly an improvement last year (although there's an argument that Jones underachieved, given the weakness of the SEC and we had two high NBA picks).
But you can't just look at overall wins and say everything is rosey. You have to look deeper.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:24 am to atltiger6487
quote:
Our OOC schedule is usually VERY weak, and is typically good for at least 10 wins
Go back and check out some of the OOC teams he was beating at North Texas......yikes.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:38 am to T
quote:
So far at LSU he has had 19 wins, 20 wins and 22 wins. That is a trend that shows improvement any way you look at it.
Dude come on, you cant just look at win total and make a sweeping statement like that.
They beat 2 ranked teams last year and the OOC schedule was hot garbage.
In 2013-14 their lone win against a ranked opponent was a 29-11 UK team that did make it to the NC but didnt get it figured out until the end of the season. We played them early.
In 2012-13 their lone win against a ranked opponent was Mizzou at home. And that season had an even worse OOC schedule.
Look closer, just saying 19-22 is useless if you dont have meaningful wins in there.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:44 am to atltiger6487
quote:
Our OOC schedule is usually VERY weak, and is typically good for at least 10 wins
Ok, so do you think lsu had tough ooc schedules in the 5 other 20 win seasons?
If you want to look at SEC records, LSU has had 9 years at .500 or better in SEC play in the past 22 years and Johnny Jones has 3 of those in his 3 years here. The program is improving and there is absolutely no need to overreact no matter how bad the clowns on here are freaking out.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 9:53 am to HSHoopscoach
We disagree with the OP. Signed:
Coach K
Bobby Knight
Dean Smith
Adolph Rupp
Coach K
Bobby Knight
Dean Smith
Adolph Rupp
Posted on 12/18/15 at 10:03 am to atltiger6487
quote:
Total wins can be deceiving, and that's why the selection committee looks so hard at strength of schedule. Our OOC schedule is usually VERY weak, and is typically good for at least 10 wins. The more relevant number is our conference record. In the SEC (which has been down in recent years) Jones has gone: 9-9, 9-9, 11-7
YEP! and if goes 9-9 or even 11-7 in the SEC this year w losses to Charleston and Houston, you can kiss the Big Dance good bye!
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