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How would Orgeron be regarded with a win over UF?
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:13 pm
I was really a bit dismayed yesterday by the long thread (still current and now at 25 pages) that illustrated the deep divide that still exists over Coach O. Wishful thinking apparently but I had really hoped that by now everybody would be on the same page in terms of looking ahead to the season and judging him by the on-field results.
In full disclosure I'll state that while he was not my number #1 hope for the job and that I agree the process sucked, I fully support him right now and am very happy with his performance since getting the job and pretty optimistic right now for success based on that performance.
The one thing I've been wondering a lot for those really down on the hire is how much different those folks might feel had we beaten the Gators. That game is a pretty common item of heavy criticism by the anti-O folks. Here's how I view that game personally:
Even dominant powerhouse programs face a very precarious game or two each year, sometimes even from an unexpected team. If that team navigates that game or two and pulls out the wins, all is good and no harm is done at all. Well, Florida came into that game an emotional, fired up, and dangerous team. As wrong as UF was in the whole hurricane fiasco, the extreme emotional reaction from our side was used as an incredible source of motivation to them. They felt slighted, disrespected, and highly insulted, an extremely dangerous concoction when the team has as much talent as they do. So then what do we have? A very tough game against an exceptionally dangerous team.
Well, the bottom line for a coach in that type of game is to be sure the team is in position to and has every opportunity to come out with the win. Despite the inspired play by the Gators, LSU was absolutely in position (a few times in fact) and had every opportunity to win the game, only to be done in by poor on-field execution and turnovers.
The result is the one game that is truly held over Orgeron's head by his detractors. A game which, for the record, I rarely, if ever attempt to argue about or defend him on.
So I bring all this up to basically ask one question. What if Guice runs left and waltzes into the endzone to get the victory on the last play of the game? Orgeron comes out with that tough fought, emotional win on his resume and finishes with a record of 7-1 (if bowl game is a win), with the only loss to the top powerhouse program in the nation.
What would be the narrative on him today?
In full disclosure I'll state that while he was not my number #1 hope for the job and that I agree the process sucked, I fully support him right now and am very happy with his performance since getting the job and pretty optimistic right now for success based on that performance.
The one thing I've been wondering a lot for those really down on the hire is how much different those folks might feel had we beaten the Gators. That game is a pretty common item of heavy criticism by the anti-O folks. Here's how I view that game personally:
Even dominant powerhouse programs face a very precarious game or two each year, sometimes even from an unexpected team. If that team navigates that game or two and pulls out the wins, all is good and no harm is done at all. Well, Florida came into that game an emotional, fired up, and dangerous team. As wrong as UF was in the whole hurricane fiasco, the extreme emotional reaction from our side was used as an incredible source of motivation to them. They felt slighted, disrespected, and highly insulted, an extremely dangerous concoction when the team has as much talent as they do. So then what do we have? A very tough game against an exceptionally dangerous team.
Well, the bottom line for a coach in that type of game is to be sure the team is in position to and has every opportunity to come out with the win. Despite the inspired play by the Gators, LSU was absolutely in position (a few times in fact) and had every opportunity to win the game, only to be done in by poor on-field execution and turnovers.
The result is the one game that is truly held over Orgeron's head by his detractors. A game which, for the record, I rarely, if ever attempt to argue about or defend him on.
So I bring all this up to basically ask one question. What if Guice runs left and waltzes into the endzone to get the victory on the last play of the game? Orgeron comes out with that tough fought, emotional win on his resume and finishes with a record of 7-1 (if bowl game is a win), with the only loss to the top powerhouse program in the nation.
What would be the narrative on him today?
37
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:15 pm to LSU Jax
Can I have a TLDR version before I answer the question?
ETA: I'm just going to answer the question in the thread title. I don't think him winning that game would have tempered the response much. People would still have their doubts about his previous coaching history.
ETA: I'm just going to answer the question in the thread title. I don't think him winning that game would have tempered the response much. People would still have their doubts about his previous coaching history.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:16 pm to LSU Jax
A narrow win over Florida probably yields the same result as a loss on the Rant.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:16 pm to LSU Jax
quote:
What would be the narrative on him today?
I personally would still believe:
- His only stint as a permanent head coach was a failure
- He hasn't totally proven he's a different coach
- He will likely have some success his first couple years due to his great assistants and great roster we have
- It's questionable whether the model of keeping top-level assistants on board every single year is sustainable
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:20 pm to LSU Jax
He could have beaten Bama and this place would have called it luck. The Rant hates LSU
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:20 pm to LSU Jax
quote:
Even dominant powerhouse programs face a very precarious game or two each year, sometimes even from an unexpected team. If that team navigates that game or two and pulls out the wins, all is good and no harm is done at all. Well, Florida came into that game an emotional, fired up, and dangerous team. As wrong as UF was in the whole hurricane fiasco, the extreme emotional reaction from our side was used as an incredible source of motivation to them. They felt slighted, disrespected, and highly insulted, an extremely dangerous concoction when the team has as much talent as they do. So then what do we have? A very tough game against an exceptionally dangerous team.
Where was our motivation? We ran our mouths in the week leading up to the game then couldn't back it up. A Sugar Bowl trip would have been a good finish to the year.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:22 pm to LSU Jax
IF he would've run the table and lost to bama only yes my thoughts would be different. That Florida game was my worst nightmare and reminded me of Les's LSU squads.... were screwed.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:28 pm to LSU Jax
It would still be a horrible hire and coaching 'search' by our AD
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:32 pm to sweetwaterbilly
quote:
Can I have a TLDR version before I answer the question?
I've quoted the most important part for you here. These to me are the most important factors:
quote:
Even dominant powerhouse programs face a very precarious game or two each year, sometimes even from an unexpected team. If that team navigates that game or two and pulls out the wins, all is good and no harm is done at all. Well, Florida came into that game an emotional, fired up, and dangerous team. As wrong as UF was in the whole hurricane fiasco, the extreme emotional reaction from our side was used as an incredible source of motivation to them. They felt slighted, disrespected, and highly insulted, an extremely dangerous concoction when the team has as much talent as they do. So then what do we have? A very tough game against an exceptionally dangerous team.
Well, the bottom line for a coach in that type of game is to be sure the team is in position to and has every opportunity to come out with the win. Despite the inspired play by the Gators, LSU was absolutely in position (a few times in fact) and had every opportunity to win the game, only to be done in by poor on-field execution and turnovers.
If those two paragraphs are TL/DR material then I don't know what to tell you.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:34 pm to lsu2006
quote:
I personally would still believe:
- His only stint as a permanent head coach was a failure
- He hasn't totally proven he's a different coach
- He will likely have some success his first couple years due to his great assistants and great roster we have
- It's questionable whether the model of keeping top-level assistants on board every single year is sustainable
/thread
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:35 pm to LSU Jax
Why?
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:38 pm to LSU Jax
The board, and Tiger Nation writ large, would have been much more welcoming of Coach O becoming Head Coach if he had done the right thing, and beaten UF.
Now the jury is still out on the portly Cajun.
Now the jury is still out on the portly Cajun.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:38 pm to LSU Jax
quote:
If those two paragraphs are TL/DR material then I don't know what to tell you.
That's fair. I'm just lazy
I agree with you though. As angry as LSU fans were about the hurricane fiasco, Florida was just as tired of hearing about them ducking us, etc. I honestly thought we would beat them by 30 playing in Tiger Stadium, but they came out swinging. I did not expect them to be that amped up for the game.
Per my original point, I still think it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the perception though.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:39 pm to LSU Jax
I am actually more aggravated at the bama game than the UF game. Against UF, the game plan wasn't horrible, but the players just didn't execute well. That is still on coach O, but not as bad.
Bama on the other hand, was an absolutely horrible game plan in the one game of the year that still meant something. we had known for 5 years that that gameplan would not beat them, yet we trot it out there just like Les would have. Aranda gives the performance of a lifetime, while the rest of the coaches and schemes shat the bed. We should've beat that team.
I'm still mad.
Bama on the other hand, was an absolutely horrible game plan in the one game of the year that still meant something. we had known for 5 years that that gameplan would not beat them, yet we trot it out there just like Les would have. Aranda gives the performance of a lifetime, while the rest of the coaches and schemes shat the bed. We should've beat that team.
I'm still mad.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:41 pm to LSU Jax
For someone who prides himself on high energy, the team could have not come out more flat in a game where there were a million reasons to be motivated. It was also the game that was supposed to put him out of the running for good for the job.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:41 pm to LSU Jax
It would be better, because we had no business losing that game.
That being said, I was one of the most negative on O's hiring, and still think we shouldve hired a proven coach, but I have to give O credit for doing what he said he would do so far, which was hire good coaches, and recruit well.
The allege divide tho doesnt exist. Rantards that wanted Coach O dont seem to understand that posters saying we should hire someone else, doesnt mean that we arent still cheering for LSU.
Its over now let it go. We're all rooting for Coach O to turn this around now.
That being said, I was one of the most negative on O's hiring, and still think we shouldve hired a proven coach, but I have to give O credit for doing what he said he would do so far, which was hire good coaches, and recruit well.
The allege divide tho doesnt exist. Rantards that wanted Coach O dont seem to understand that posters saying we should hire someone else, doesnt mean that we arent still cheering for LSU.
Its over now let it go. We're all rooting for Coach O to turn this around now.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:42 pm to Choupique19
quote:
Where was our motivation?
Sorry but I am convinced that we did not have NEARLY as much to be motivated about as they did, after hearing what was said about them. Probably most of it here on the Rant.
They were called out as cowards. What more motivation can you possibly give to a talented football team at the top level of college football?
quote:
We ran our mouths in the week leading up to the game then couldn't back it up.
Serious question because I have trouble even remembering last week... Did we have players running their mouths the week before? Or do you mean the fans or who?
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:42 pm to LSU Jax
The Florida loss doesn't impact my view of O at all.
There is a different skill set required to be an interim coach that a head coach.
Wins or losses for that matter as an interim are in no way predictive of success or failure as a HC.
As interim you are taking over a system built by another.
Totally different than picking a staff and support personnel and implementing your vision of offense and defense.
Apples and oranges.
There is a different skill set required to be an interim coach that a head coach.
Wins or losses for that matter as an interim are in no way predictive of success or failure as a HC.
As interim you are taking over a system built by another.
Totally different than picking a staff and support personnel and implementing your vision of offense and defense.
Apples and oranges.
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:44 pm to LSU Jax
Couldn't you just answer the question since you...
quote:?
agree the process sucked
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:46 pm to sweetwaterbilly
quote:
That's fair. I'm just lazy
quote:
I honestly thought we would beat them by 30 playing in Tiger Stadium
Can't lie. So did I.
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