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re: ESPN predicts Ben Simmons "won't live up to the hype"
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:45 pm to PhillyFan1994
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:45 pm to PhillyFan1994
quote:
Just one problem: He has a coach who doesn't have a knack for developing talent.
Pumpers gonna be madd
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:45 pm to tiger81
quote:
Ben won't live up to the hype his first year, just like LF didn't. There's a transition period for virtually any freshman ( unless your name is Chris Jackson ).
Given his tendency to be so unselfish and distribute the ball, I'm not expecting him to be to be a top 5 scorer in the SEC, and that's fine. We need his court vision and basketball iq more than anything else in his skill set
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:47 pm to tiger81
quote:
.but development by the staff will be key
exactly the problem.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:51 pm to PhillyFan1994
quote:
re: ESPN predicts Ben Simmons "won't live up to the hype"
Who he is, Flava Flav?
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:57 pm to lsufan112001
quote:
LSU has a street ball type offense. not much screening, back door passes, etc..
for once I agree with ESPN
I disagree with Jones offensive "strategy" and would like to see us run a defined offense, but that is a different discussion than player development. Martin was the biggest improvement so far of the Jones era, and O'Bryant definitely showed an improvement in his game over his time here.
I do hope that Jones is able to design a bunch of different sets to run to show Ben Simmons skill set: Block to block cross screens to give him space in the low post, get him the ball at the elbow and allow him to see the court and create, let him set some ball screens, have some ball screens set for him, seems like he would be very effective off of curls with quick looks and dump off passes, etc...
Jones lack of creativity on offense may not allow for Simmons to get some National Player of the Year recognition, but I still feel that his skills will improve in his time here based on Jones recent track record.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:59 pm to PhillyFan1994
There are 7 "fans" on an LSU message board that upvoted a post about a writer hating on a coach.
Now mind you, all this coach has done since being hired is win. Took over when the program was about as low as it could be, then took them to the NIT, then took them to the NCAA tournament, lost a heartbreaker to a Sweet 16 team, and is bringing in a top 10 and potentially top 3 recruiting class, and most expect us to be a higher seed in next year's NCAAT. But yea, CJJ sucks
Now mind you, all this coach has done since being hired is win. Took over when the program was about as low as it could be, then took them to the NIT, then took them to the NCAA tournament, lost a heartbreaker to a Sweet 16 team, and is bringing in a top 10 and potentially top 3 recruiting class, and most expect us to be a higher seed in next year's NCAAT. But yea, CJJ sucks
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:06 pm to tigerbait2010
That's an easy prediction to say that Simmons won't "live up to the hype", because the hype will be enormous. It will be in the same manner as Fournette not living up to the hype in football even though he had a pretty good Freshman season.
As for the comment about Jones, it's hard for any coach to "develop" a player in just one season. Jones won't even get a full calendar year to develop Simmons. Still, the criticism of Jones is not completely off base. I can see the argument that neither Mickey nor Martin progressed all that much from year 1 to year 2. Yes their numbers went up, but so did their minutes. The argument could be made that other than Martin FINALLY becoming aggressive as the year went on, their overall games really didn't improve very much.
Mickey went from 13/8 playing 33 mpg to 15/10 playing 35 mpg, but did his game really change all that much? In his Freshman year he was a good/great rebounder who could knock down a 12-15 footer but still had a limited back to the basket game. He was also exceptional shot blocker. You could say the exact same thing about him this season, only that he got a little more opportunity with JOBIII moving on.
Martin went from 10/5 as Fr. to 17/9 this season. However, he also averaged 9 more mpg. But again, did his overall game really improve significantly? He still wasn't a great defender this year and you could argue that he was less effective from the outside in year 2 than year 1 (his 3 point % significantly decreased). IMO, the only difference for him is that he finally realized he could do some damage by attacking the basket.
Quarterman is the one guy you could look at and say that he definitely improved from year 1 to year 2.
The bottom line is that as much as it pisses some off on here, Jones will continue to get little respect until he actually does something other than sign some big time prospects. At this point in his 15 year head coaching career he is the only current SEC head coach who has never won a NCAAT game other than Kim Anderson and Avery Johnson who have won a NCAA DII Nat. Title and led a team to the NBA Finals respectively. In fact, Jones has never won an outright conf. title in his career. It's not unreasonable to say that he ranks at the bottom of all SEC coaches in career accomplishments.
As for the comment about Jones, it's hard for any coach to "develop" a player in just one season. Jones won't even get a full calendar year to develop Simmons. Still, the criticism of Jones is not completely off base. I can see the argument that neither Mickey nor Martin progressed all that much from year 1 to year 2. Yes their numbers went up, but so did their minutes. The argument could be made that other than Martin FINALLY becoming aggressive as the year went on, their overall games really didn't improve very much.
Mickey went from 13/8 playing 33 mpg to 15/10 playing 35 mpg, but did his game really change all that much? In his Freshman year he was a good/great rebounder who could knock down a 12-15 footer but still had a limited back to the basket game. He was also exceptional shot blocker. You could say the exact same thing about him this season, only that he got a little more opportunity with JOBIII moving on.
Martin went from 10/5 as Fr. to 17/9 this season. However, he also averaged 9 more mpg. But again, did his overall game really improve significantly? He still wasn't a great defender this year and you could argue that he was less effective from the outside in year 2 than year 1 (his 3 point % significantly decreased). IMO, the only difference for him is that he finally realized he could do some damage by attacking the basket.
Quarterman is the one guy you could look at and say that he definitely improved from year 1 to year 2.
The bottom line is that as much as it pisses some off on here, Jones will continue to get little respect until he actually does something other than sign some big time prospects. At this point in his 15 year head coaching career he is the only current SEC head coach who has never won a NCAAT game other than Kim Anderson and Avery Johnson who have won a NCAA DII Nat. Title and led a team to the NBA Finals respectively. In fact, Jones has never won an outright conf. title in his career. It's not unreasonable to say that he ranks at the bottom of all SEC coaches in career accomplishments.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:06 pm to Meep
quote:
How about stop giving the ball to fricking Jordan Mickey. I would think that was evident after about the second missed layup.
Once again....what does this have to do with player development?
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:06 pm to tiger81
quote:
I've seen Ben twice in game situations against top talent, he needs work in the half court game. He needs to be a lot more aggressive in looking for shots.
I've probably watched somewhere between 15-20 of his games the last 2 years, all of which are against elite talent.
I absolutely HATE when people say he isn't aggressive. He is the type of player that can score 20 points while taking 11 shots. I don't think people understand this, but that's special. It's because he is able to scope out a defense and pick the best shot. In what world is it ok to always be aggressive? He is always willing to hit the open man with a pass, and in college that is HUGE. In high school, players aren't as talented generally and won't be knock down shooters when they're open. I predict Simmons will have many 5-7 assist games. If he has games where he scores 15 points, 7 assists, 7 rebounds and shoots 60% from the field...that's an elite type of player
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:09 pm to PhillyFan1994
Right. Tim Quarterman raises his FG% by 16%, his 3pt% by 11%, and his FT% by 17%, but he didn't develop?
Jarell Martin grabbed twice as many rebounds and raised his FG% while taking 4 more shots a game. No development there.
Jarell Martin grabbed twice as many rebounds and raised his FG% while taking 4 more shots a game. No development there.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:13 pm to Alt26
quote:
It's not unreasonable to say that he ranks at the bottom of all SEC coaches in career accomplishments.
And in pay. People have lofty expectations for a guy who is making bottom tier money.
And Martin got a TON better. He didn't shoot from outside as much, but around the rim and driving he was virtually unstoppable. Sure he got more aggressive, but I'm saying Jones told him to be more aggressive and stop settling. He wasn't aggressive for a year and a half then just turned it on. I'm giving Jones the credit
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:16 pm to LSUButt
Also to add about people who say Simmons isn't aggressive. He's the best player on the team that has won 3 straight HS National Championships. You don't do that by not being fiery, competitive, and aggressive
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:18 pm to LSUButt
quote:
all this coach has done since being hired is win.
He didnt beat NCState a couple weeks back....
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:22 pm to CptBengal
Well if we're playing that game, then every coach every year sucks. Last I checked only one team wins at the end of the year (NIT and CBI don't count).
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:23 pm to CptBengal
quote:
Pumpers gonna be madd
Why do you have to be considered a sunshine pumper when simply looking at the numbers say otherwise?
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:24 pm to LSUButt
quote:
People have lofty expectations for a guy who is making bottom tier money.
The expectations increased with the talent level.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:25 pm to tigerbait2010
The bigger question is why do people have to shite on ALL the coaches? LSU basketball is getting more exposure right now than they have in 10 years, and its just straight negativity from a handful of fans. Pathetic
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:25 pm to Meep
You're
A
fricking
Idiot
Just stfu already
A
fricking
Idiot
Just stfu already
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:29 pm to c on z
quote:
The expectations increased with the talent level.
And each year the team continues to improve with the talent level. It's not hard to see since it's a direct correlation with results
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:30 pm to LSUButt
quote:
The bigger question is why do people have to shite on ALL the coaches? LSU basketball is getting more exposure right now than they have in 10 years, and its just straight negativity from a handful of fans. Pathetic
The unrealistic expectations by some is hilarious. LSU's best basketball coach in history was notorious for underachieving with loaded rosters, so why people imply LSU is light years above Jones is epic. if he doesn't work out, he'll be canned within three years with a really low buyout. he was a low risk, high reward hire and to this point he's greatly outperformed his pay grade
Let's not even dive into performance based pay, the complexities of being a non-blue blood championship program, and the highest level of parity in collegiate history outside of women's basketball. that would require some to think objectively and look outside the box
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