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Posted on 6/21/14 at 4:59 pm to ULSU
Heard the same thing about JOB. I don't get my hopes up about the once in a decade type player. Other than Shaq and CJ35, I am usually not expecting Bill Russel or Karl Malone to come through that door. Been let down too many times.
Posted on 6/21/14 at 5:09 pm to ULSU
I really think the answer is a resounding.....NO.
Everytime I've gone to explain it to people over the last few months, they always bring up Shaq and even Stanley.
Stanley had competition, a guy called Alonzo Mourning.
Shaq was undoubtedly the MAN. But for one he was RAW as hel%. Secondly, he was a big. Bigs rarely if ever dominate at the college level. In regards to freshman, there have been like only three frosh ever to impact the game as freshman Jabbar, Pervis, and a couple of others.
Ben Simmons is the only player ever to walk on LSU's campus already polished enough to play in the NBA in regards to his basketball skills. PLUS, he is a 6'9" specimen who can really fly down the court.
College teams can struggle while having the best big in the game. But a player like Simmons will automatically carry a team pretty far. In the case of Simmons and the Tigers I am talking
The
Final
Four
Posted on 6/21/14 at 5:18 pm to MottLaneKid
JOB was a 5-star and I would say he lived up to his hype. He wasn't even known as a 1 & done though.
The hype is much greater for Simmons.
The hype is much greater for Simmons.
Posted on 6/21/14 at 5:18 pm to LSUzealot
Can someone compare Simmons to Anthony Davis if they are both once in a decade talent?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 5:38 pm to MottLaneKid
quote:
Heard the same thing about JOB.
Nowhere close. JOB, no offense to to him, is a statement to the Trent Johnson era in recruiting. He was a very solid recruit who had a good career but he was a 4 star around number 50 in the nation across all the services. The fact that we were so excited for that and that he is the single best player we got is a testament to the state of the program when Jones took over.
Simmons is number 2 and probably going to move to 1.
Jarrell Martin is a better example for you 5 star top 15 player but Jarrell was coming from a Class B high school and was hurt to start the season. As the year went on he showed his talent.
Simmons is coming from essentially a basketball academy at monteverde.
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 8:36 pm to LSUzealot
quote:
Can someone compare Simmons to Anthony Davis if they are both once in a decade talent?
Cant do that. And, even though someone said Simmons is a once in a decade type of player, I dont think he is really a "once in a decade" type of prospect. And it seems like we are hearing that every year about the next top player. Plus, Anthony Davis is the rarest of rare when you consider he was 6'3 his JR in high school and now hes pushing 6'11. Its just not normal.
But he just went to the NBA prep camp, where other of the top players in the country went, and he stood out above all of them. Scouts and analysts said its a no brainer that hes the #1player for that class. And even though I wont say hes a "once in a decade" type of prospect, only guys like that to me are Lebron, Anthony Davis, Shaq, KD, I will say that he is a very rare prospect and players like him dont come along that often. He is special. No doubt about that.
Posted on 6/21/14 at 8:58 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
It was, and I think to rationalize it as anything else is burying one's head in the sand.
The people that call last season a disappointment are the ones that had unrealistic expectations because we signed Martin who was a top 15 player in the country and had a good recruiting class. Newsflash: They are all still freshman. Kentucky can get away with it because they sign 5 of the top 15players in the country every year. And then still have struggled doing that.
But the big problem last year was our guards. Dont get me wrong, I love Hickey and Stringer. They gave their all for us. But, they are 5'10 or shorter going up against 6'3+ guards that are more skilled than they are. And Im a big JOB fan. He was very solid for us. But, he wasnt that much better than Justin Hamilton. Both guys averaged 13-15ppg and 7-8rebs. And JOB was very much 1 dimensional on offense.
And Martin rolled his ankle in the first 3 minutes of the 1st game of the season for us and missed about a month. That month is huge for young players development and confidence. They use that month to get acclimated to their system and college game and when conference plays comes around, they are ready to do. That didnt happen for Martin. He got hurt and had to get used to the college game during conference play. That month where he didnt play pushed his development back to pretty much the halfway point of the season.
Hell, Martin was supposed to be the big named freshman that was awesome. But it was Mickey that came out of nowhere and was really good. It didnt take Mickey any time to get acclimated to the college game. He was ready to go from day 1. It took Martin a little while to get used to it. But once he did, he was great.
The point that Im making is that just because you have highly touted freshman coming in doesnt mean that they will automatically be awesome and wont struggle and all that. Jus because you get highly ranked guys doesnt mean it turns into automatic success.That rarely happens. Kentucky had a great run, but they also missed the tourney the year before that. And some analysts have said that the class Kentucky had last year was the best recruiting class ever. Thats how good it was. But they still had their bumps and bruises along the way. But besides 2 years for Kentucky, I dont remember a team led by freshman dominating. And remember, these are still 18year old kids.
Last season was our 1st time to win 20 games since the 2008-2009 season. And it was the 1st time we had a postseason win since that season as well. We also beat Kentucky as well and almost beat them twice.
This upcoming season is the 1 big 1. We are returning our 2 studs in Mickey and Martin and we signed Josh Gray, who is going to be the best scorer on the team. Going to be a stud. Averaged 33ppg and 6 assists in JUCO. Hes a huge upgrade over Hickey and Stringer.
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:14 pm to LSUzealot
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:56 pm to seeLSUrun
He just won MVP of NBA camp
Posted on 6/22/14 at 9:16 am to MottLaneKid
quote:
Heard the same thing about JOB.
I saw JOB3 play as a senior, and he was o.k., but I wasn't floored the way I have been seeing Simmons as a junior play, and I've seen him play 3 times on t.v.
If you were hearing the same about JOB, no offense cause I like JOB, but you were getting information from the wrong people.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 9:24 am to jondavid11
quote:
He just won MVP of NBA camp
LINK The hype around Simmons is starting to grow even more IMO. He'll end up as the No. 1 guy on most scouting services in the end. The question is: who joins him as a part of the '15 class?
Posted on 6/22/14 at 9:53 am to KG5989
quote:
The people that call last season a disappointment are the ones that had unrealistic expectations
I guess the media had unrealistic expectations.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 10:37 am to c on z
quote:
The people that call last season a disappointment are the ones that had unrealistic expectationsquote:
I guess the media had unrealistic expectations.
Yeah I disagree with that 100%. We could have gone 12-6 in a down SEC easily last year if we just played defense. Last year's team was one of the most disappointing since I've been following LSU basketball. I posted that I liked our 00-01 team that won 2 sec games more than last year's team. We had zero hustle, zero effort, especially on the defensive end. Yeah Martin showed signs of brilliance at some points, but even Bobby Knight said "that was one of the worst defensive plays I've seen in my life" in regards to how he played D.
I think with this "new" squad will bring some life as well as Musselman who can build rapport with the players and hopefully get their arse in gear on the defensive side. Not worried at all about our offense, we should be very prolific. But another year of no defense means no improvement. I could see is finishing 9-9 in conference again or a ceiling of 14-4 if Gray is who we think he is.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 11:46 am to KG5989
quote:
The people that call last season a disappointment are the ones that had unrealistic expectations because we signed Martin who was a top 15 player in the country and had a good recruiting class. Newsflash: They are all still freshman. Kentucky can get away with it because they sign 5 of the top 15players in the country every year. And then still have struggled doing that.
I'm not in that category. I thought Mickey would be the better player last year because Martin did not have a lot of practical basketball experience. So while the expectations of some might have been born of that miscalculation, mine were not.
quote:
But the big problem last year was our guards. Dont get me wrong, I love Hickey and Stringer. They gave their all for us. But, they are 5'10 or shorter going up against 6'3+ guards that are more skilled than they are.
To say that did not play a part in our defensive issues would also be burying head in sand, but it goes much deeper. When Coleman was in for one of them or even the times when Coleman and Quarterman were in at guards together, there were still consistent defensive issues. We kept hearing all year until the end about communication on defense being a problem and our bigs seemed to struggle consistently with making the wrong decisions on ball screens and rotations.
Bottom line for me is while this team was not the '81 team in talent or experience, I think it's all relative. And relative to the conference we were in and the level of the rest of college basketball, we underachieved. lost too many games we should not have and didn't make that up by beating enough teams that we probably should not have.
Last year does not have to define Johnny. Each year is a new opportunity to learn and to develop a coaching legacy at this level. I think the hiring of Mussleman is a big step in the right direction.
And with that and Simmons coming I'm sure willing to give CJJ the benefit that he's gonna do what it takes to address the issues and get this program where we all want it to be.
This post was edited on 6/22/14 at 11:50 am
Posted on 6/22/14 at 1:01 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Bottom line for me is while this team was not the '81 team in talent or experience, I think it's all relative. And relative to the conference we were in and the level of the rest of college basketball, we underachieved. lost too many games we should not have and didn't make that up by beating enough teams that we probably should not have.
Johnnys first year set expectations too high for last year.
2 years ago we were starting a walk on tuba player and won 18 games. That is incredible.
This past year we were bringing in a big time recruiting class and won the same amount of regular season games. I agree that its a little disappointing and a let down.
However there was a couple games we pulled out in the first season ie MSU Vandy Bama that we dropped this past season-Bama UK and should have finished off OM in regulation-hickey missed a layup and a jumper to end the 2nd half. If just 2 of those had gone our way then we are sitting at 11-7 in conference 20-12 regular season and while maybe still not in the tourney there wouldnt be much complaining.
We will be much better this coming year. The year after that we will go deep in the tourney with simmons. I just hope some of the guys like Martin and Mickey stick around. Or maybe some of the other top 10 kids start to want to build around simmons like the UK kids do.
This post was edited on 6/22/14 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 6/22/14 at 1:06 pm to Tiger Ugly
fundamentals and D just have to improve if this program is to ever really get going again consistently. talented players like martin and simmons can only take you so far if you can't guard your own shadow or pass the ball with both hands or block out, etc.
those things and the team's collective lack of a sense of urgency or effort at times really disturbed me. those road games we dropped at alabama, uga, a&m and the manner in which we lost was really unfortunate. i'll add the ole miss game because that whole game we just looked like a team going through the motions.
those things and the team's collective lack of a sense of urgency or effort at times really disturbed me. those road games we dropped at alabama, uga, a&m and the manner in which we lost was really unfortunate. i'll add the ole miss game because that whole game we just looked like a team going through the motions.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 1:21 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
Johnnys first year set expectations too high for last year.
That does not apply for me. I don't think Johnny's first year was the miracle that many do just because Del Piero played 13 minutes a game. Again, for me it's all relative.
For me in Johnny's first year was satisfactory and we achieved about what I thought we could and would relative to our schedule and the conference we played in...many would disagree but as I looked at it game by game I thought we pretty much won the games we should have and lost the ones we should have with the exceptions pretty much balancing each other out.
My expectations were that we could do the same (play to our level relative to our schedule and competition) last year and I don't think we quite did which is why I think for me and some others last season was disappointing.
For some it wasn't disappointing and can respect that opinion but obviously I differ with it.
quote:My expectations are that we will be a little better. Hopefully Hornsby will be as good as some think he is.
We will be much better this coming year.
The JUCO kid will score I have no doubt, but how efficient will he be? Will it be 25 points on 8 of 23 shooting with 6 turnovers?
And can he and Hornsby defend.
Also, don't underestimate the overall value Coleman brought, that's a key loss. And can Quarterman progress and improve? All big keys.
I'm excited about what Mussleman can bring. I think maybe Johnny realized the need and made the right move. There's a learning curve. The SEC ain't what it used to be in hoops but it ain't the Sunbelt either. Good for Johnny for addressing the need.
quote:
The year after that we will go deep in the tourney with simmons.
The kids a difference maker. I'm excited about that year.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 1:32 pm to S
quote:
fundamentals and D just have to improve if this program is to ever really get going again consistently.
I agree S. Small guards can't explain it all away. Carmouche came here with experience at the big time level at Memphis and already knew how to play D. Even though we were still statistically poor defensively overall I think he kinda helped to hide some of the holes in our defensive system.
quote:
those things and the team's collective lack of a sense of urgency or effort at times really disturbed me. those road games we dropped at alabama, uga, a&m and the manner in which we lost was really unfortunate. i'll add the ole miss game because that whole game we just looked like a team going through the motions.
Agree totally with all that.
I like Johnny. Everybody likes Johnny, that's why he got the job. But I don't think it unreasonable to say last year was not his finest year and that there's not room for improvement in our bench coaching, motivation and preparation.
I think Mussleman is a legit step in addressing that and I applaud that. Hopefully, the coaching chemistry works out and we see it on the court.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 2:01 pm to Tiger Ugly
Johnny's first season and the '13 recruiting class got LSU basketball fans excited again (as well it should've), but things didn't quite pan out after those early successes. I think most will agree that last season was a bit of a disappointment.
It's just time to move on and focus on the current team. It gets old when every LSU basketball-related thread turns into a 'last season was a disappointment' thread. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about last season. But damn, it gets old seeing many LSU basketball discussions revert back to the same topic.
It's just time to move on and focus on the current team. It gets old when every LSU basketball-related thread turns into a 'last season was a disappointment' thread. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about last season. But damn, it gets old seeing many LSU basketball discussions revert back to the same topic.
This post was edited on 6/22/14 at 2:03 pm
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