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re: CPM's Achilles' heel - leaving pitchers in too long
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:19 pm to LSU GrandDad
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:19 pm to LSU GrandDad
Interesting stuff but there is a pattern with CPM on this and it shows up in meaningful games as well.
0
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:21 pm to LSU GrandDad
Strall was given how many batters to pitch out of a "tough" situation? Strall is also a senior. What did we learn that we didn't already know?
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:37 pm to ell_13
I think the issue is specific to Strall. At this point in his career, they should basically always warm another arm when they warm him. His success is 100% strike zone dependent. If Blue gives him the low strike, he can last an inning. If not, he has to choose between walking dudes or getting rocked and you better be ready with the hook.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:43 pm to ell_13
quote:
Strall was given how many batters to pitch out of a "tough" situation? Strall is also a senior. What did we learn that we didn't already know?
Also, if we're letting guys (like Strall) try and learn to pitch in tough situations, shouldn't we provide a safety net like getting someone up at least after the second XBH he gives up? Ignoring his entire history in P&G because "he has to learn" is silly.
Also, if you're going to an inexperienced guy getting him work, how do you have one of your most inconsistent guys who hasn't pitched in a year as the backup plan? Shouldn't you have someone more established. You ended up going to Reynolds anyway. I'm not sure how your plan is newcomer in first action, plan b sidewinder who can't throw strikes coming off an injury.
This post was edited on 2/22/17 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:51 pm to therick711
I can't pretend to know those answers other than just assuming PM and Dunn had an idea of the order they were going to throw them and stuck with it. As a counter point, Strall had Reynolds to back him up and maybe that was done on purpose due to his past. Hanagriff tried to make it sound like we knew almost nothing about Strall while talking about this during lunch. And he eventually conceded that PM just doesn't like getting guys warm unless he absolutely knows he's going to use him. Which, I think, is everyone's big concern because that approach is risky.
But I agree with your points.
But I agree with your points.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:55 pm to ell_13
quote:
I can't pretend to know those answers other than just assuming PM and Dunn had an idea of the order they were going to throw them and stuck with it.
That's got to be the explanation, and that is fine, other than the fact that that particular plan exposed your newcomer in his first appearance and exposed your team to a chance of loss. I'm not saying Reynolds locks the inning down after Kiel, but I think we would all be more comfortable if Reynolds got whipped, rather than Strall.
This post was edited on 2/22/17 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:57 pm to ell_13
quote:
he eventually conceded that PM just doesn't like getting guys warm unless he absolutely knows he's going to use him.
This is a recent evolution of Mainieri, and not one I'm going to gripe about.
We've had relievers in the past that would get up twice to warm up on Friday, once or twice on Saturday, and finally actually get in the game on Sunday and throw like shite.
It's also an effort to keep arms healthy. Warming them up on multiple consecutive days isn't quite as bad as actually putting them in on multiple consecutive days, but it isn't good either.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:00 pm to LSU GrandDad
Ding, ding, ding LSU GrandDad is the winner. Dunn was quoted last wk that one game in particular last yr, when Lang was struggling early in the season, showed him more of what Lang is made of then any game in which he threw a 2 hitter with 13 strikes outs. Lang was getting knocked around hard in the early innings, he gave up 5-6 runs, yet, Dunn & CPM wanted to leave him in JUST TO LEARN HOW TO PITCH OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS. CPM is ripped for not developing pitches, so when he leaves this one or that one in "too long", he gets ripped anyway for poor management. Stop & consider how many times in his career that Poche struggled the same exact way as Strall. Now look at him.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:01 pm to ProjectP2294
Completely true, but there's a happy medium here which is pretty obvious. Send the guy down to the pen and get him lightly tossing just to get his heart rate up. When you know you are 1-2 batters away, take a visit and get him really moving/ready. It's not that hard.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:03 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:Stop yelling, francis.
JUST TO LEARN HOW TO PITCH OUT OF THOSE SITUATIONS
quote:Uh. Never.
Stop & consider how many times in his career that Poche struggled the same exact way as Strall
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:04 pm to ell_13
Agreed.
All that stuff I said about not warming guys up if they aren't going to use them doesn't really even apply to last night when they had a list of guys they knew they were going to use.
All that stuff I said about not warming guys up if they aren't going to use them doesn't really even apply to last night when they had a list of guys they knew they were going to use.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:06 pm to ProjectP2294
I have the biggest issue with the plan. Having Strall be plan B for your newcomer in his first action is just a stupid plan, all things considered. Bringing Strall into the situation you brought him into was a smaller, but significant issue with the plan.
This post was edited on 2/22/17 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:08 pm to therick711
quote:
Having Strall be plan B for your freshman in his first start is just a stupid plan
I don't disagree, but I don't know where this was ever a plan.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:09 pm to ProjectP2294
Don't get me wrong. I don't want Newman throwing a 25 pitch bullpen on Friday and Saturday and then he's not himself when we need him Sunday. But this isn't what anyone is asking for.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:12 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
I don't disagree, but I don't know where this was ever a plan.
If he knew who he was going to throw and Strall replaced Kiel, I think we can make the assumption that Strall was the plan b by virtue of being next in line. There's no other reason Strall would have been the first guy you go to otherwise. He's right-handed and you have a ton of those guys.
This post was edited on 2/22/17 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:12 pm to therick711
quote:I seriously think they just had an order and went with it. And there's no way you could leave Kiel out there. I'm pretty certain the plan was never to put Strall in that situation. Which is where my concern comes in. Get Reynolds up THEN instead of waiting 3 batters to get him started like it's some shock that Strall would struggle.
Bringing Strall into the situation you brought him into was a smaller, but significant issue with the plan.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:13 pm to GeismarGeauxer
He gets bashed for pulling them too soon as well
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:13 pm to ell_13
quote:
Get Reynolds up THEN instead of waiting 3 batters to get him started like it's some shock that Strall would struggle.
Exactly. As it went, you had to do that anyway except now you are 6 runs and 6 hits into it.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:14 pm to therick711
quote:
If he knew who he was going to throw and Strall replaced Kiel, I think we can make the assumption that Strall was the plan b by virtue of being next in line.
Gilbert, a sophomore with starting experience, got the start.
Kiel, a JUCO transfer junior, was first in relief.
Strall relieved Kiel.
You're going to have to explain your point to me again, because I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:15 pm to PeaRidgeWatash
quote:
He gets bashed for pulling them too soon as well
Yep. Believe it or not, it is possible to get criticized for doing both. Ask Ell about Doug Norman or Kyle Bouman.
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