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re: Canada to Orgeron: we need to simplify
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:08 pm to CharlesLSU
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:08 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
Every time they are shifting and motioning, the defenses seem to be totally unaffected.
I've tried to watch the pattern - my best guess is the value is in getting the defense to read the motion and have to consider both the jet sweep, off tackle and counter - because we tend to run those plays out of those motion plays. Not 100%, but I think that is his intent with that motion. A basic alignment that you can run the off tackle and counter out of (essentially the old pro set or one back) - doesn't necessarily generate a lot of pressure. But if they have to read for either, or the jet sweep (or the fake) or any of those as play action does increase the mental stress on the defense.
IF we executed the plays better, I think it could work over time. Big "if."
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Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:08 pm to rmnldr
quote:
I thought it was already the simplest offense to learn in the whole country. Either they lied or our guys are brain dead idiots and I refuse to believe the latter.
Considering the same junk put up 70 on Syracuse last year, I tend to lean toward the OL just being full of dumb fricks.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:09 pm to therick711
Let's not pretend we know what all goes on in staff meetings based on this one tweet.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:10 pm to sicboy
quote:
Let's not pretend we know what all goes on in staff meetings based on this one tweet.
Orgeron told us what he was going to do. He has said himself hundreds of time he's going to hire good people and let them do their thing. It would be even more damning if you want to allow for the possibility that Orgeron is actually responsible for what we are doing on both sides of the ball.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:12 pm to STRIPES
quote:watch the long TD pass to Davis. Chark went in motion, and safety came up because he was wide open sliding out to the flat leaving Davis 1-on-1 with DB having outside position. Safety didn't bite on the motion, but the motion caused the quick flash open that he did bite on.
The only players who appear confused by all the motion are wearing Purple & Gold
On DW's TD run the motion, to the opposite side of the play, had the middle LB peeking in with his eyes watching the wrong keys and OLB was blocked by OL freeing him up.
On Chark's TD run it looked just like DW's TD run with the LB to motion-from side coming up to play DW and the other OLB (to the side of the run) flat footed. Notice the CB bit hard early and Davis would've run free on a fake. If it wasn't for the successful runs to the off-motion side earlier this play would have likely not been a TD.
Other than determining it it's zone vs man-man coverage, the motion is about eyes and keys. If we overload a side, the keys change, the eyes change. Secondly, the LACK OF REACTION pre-snap allows for mismatches later in the game. 2 tackles overload... 2 tackles overload... ooops, that's a TE.
This post was edited on 9/25/17 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:18 pm to baobabtiger
quote:
This offense is no diffferent than what we've seen over the last 10 years.
Except it's considerably worse.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:18 pm to sicboy
What I see that can be incredibly successful is throwing over the middle on drag routes or skinny posts, some quicker throws over the middle where the big WRs can use their body to get open. Use double move routes where the smaller WR can fake going over the middle then turn back toward the sideline. Mix things up in the run game. I still haven't seen any kind of screens, whether it be WR or to the backs. I saw on many occasions when the defense sends pressure the middle of the field or the flats are wide open. Like that play from Brennan to Williams, we could have hit them almost all game with that.
If Canada can come up with plays to hurt a defense that has an aggressive DL or front seven, with quick passes and perfect these plays with his offense then LSU can slow that down, and it can take lots of pressure off of our OL. Especially to start the game, then once we slow that front down a bit, we can start running the ball and build from there.
I don't understand how an opposing offense can find ways to do that against LSU but we can't find ways to do that against them. We could also run patterns behind these shorter routes so that when the defense does react to the shorter stuff we have an option over the middle to hurt them deep as well. Canada is smarter than what he's shown. We must figure out a way to make defense's pay for an aggressive DL and front seven.
Execution is a big factor in our offense not being as successful but the play calling could be better as well. LSU responded when we started to attack the DL and its aggressiveness, but we can do an even better job of it start to finish. That's how every team will attack LSU so there needs to be a plan to attack that while having a back up plan to attack their response to it.
If Canada can come up with plays to hurt a defense that has an aggressive DL or front seven, with quick passes and perfect these plays with his offense then LSU can slow that down, and it can take lots of pressure off of our OL. Especially to start the game, then once we slow that front down a bit, we can start running the ball and build from there.
I don't understand how an opposing offense can find ways to do that against LSU but we can't find ways to do that against them. We could also run patterns behind these shorter routes so that when the defense does react to the shorter stuff we have an option over the middle to hurt them deep as well. Canada is smarter than what he's shown. We must figure out a way to make defense's pay for an aggressive DL and front seven.
Execution is a big factor in our offense not being as successful but the play calling could be better as well. LSU responded when we started to attack the DL and its aggressiveness, but we can do an even better job of it start to finish. That's how every team will attack LSU so there needs to be a plan to attack that while having a back up plan to attack their response to it.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:22 pm to BilJ
quote:
they've really fricked themselves from some of the things they've said to the media regarding the offense in the offseason
I suppose so. But it's ok to adjust. This is year one for Canada and O as head coach. We knew the offense was going to be a work in progress throughout the whole season, and that was before OL transfers galore.
I think we start to figure ourselves out week to week.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:23 pm to I20goon
quote:
Other than determining it it's zone vs man-man coverage, the motion is about eyes and keys. If we overload a side, the keys change, the eyes change. Secondly, the LACK OF REACTION pre-snap allows for mismatches later in the game. 2 tackles overload... 2 tackles overload... ooops, that's a TE.
All of those benefits yet we are still worse than we've been in some time. Perhaps we should focus on getting some of the basics shored up before we worry about pre-snap motions.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:24 pm to wildcat81tiger86
quote:
Very poor play calling.
100% disagree here. With the exception of a few plays, such as the play action when you OL is like a sieve and running Guice up the middle on 3rd and short, I think the playcalling was on point. I do agree with using the pistol and having plays that develop quicker.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:29 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
Every time they are shifting and motioning, the defenses seem to be totally unaffected.
I'm sure during film leading up to facing lsu or a Matt Canada offense, the statements "stick to your assignement" and "don't let the shifts get out of position" are repeated over and over agaEvery time they are shifting and motioning, the defenses seem to be totally unaffected.in.
All this movement is to get one man out of position to create the big play.
If they don't bite, we get our 2-4 yards per play.
A well coached defense will eat us up.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:34 pm to slackster
quote:I really can't argue that. It makes sense.
All of those benefits yet we are still worse than we've been in some time. Perhaps we should focus on getting some of the basics shored up before we worry about pre-snap motions.
However, if I were going to argue against your point I would say we haven't had a single fumble on a motion exchange, an inadvertent collision in the backfield, and very few illegal motion/illegal procedure penalties. Nor have WRs (or Tackles) been dropping from exhaustion or cramps.
I don't see the negatives. Our offensive problems do not stem from making people run 18' at a leisurely pace.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:38 pm to sicboy
I thought the shifting was supposed to reveal the defense. Players move with their assignments, heavy and light side adjustments make for counter adjustments, find out where the blitz may be coming from, etc. However, once defenses catch on to what you are reading, they will react in a manner as to hide the information, and then it is worth nothing.
Seemed to work the first two games, but the last two the defenses have not given us much information in response to the moves.
Seemed to work the first two games, but the last two the defenses have not given us much information in response to the moves.
This post was edited on 9/25/17 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:39 pm to sicboy
Bull. It's the reverse. Canada has been handcuffed since he arrived in BR. It's the reason the offense has been predictable. Let the man run his real offense. Cause right now he is not. O has been asking for "simplification" b4 the 1st kickoff. Then tells the media the exact opposite smdh
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:44 pm to I20goon
quote:
I counted Bama's pre-snap motions vs. Vandy on the first 10 plays. 6, 1 with double motion.
But that was mostly jet sweep motion which absolutely help pause 2 defenders. It's the motion where 3 big guys moves, followed by a running back and or a tight end, and then the jet sweep motion. At that point, they're basically back to where they started (just different guys in the original spot)
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:46 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
Every time they are shifting and motioning, the defenses seem to be totally unaffected.
I thought presnap motions and shifts were to find out where defenses were playing man or zone in certain packages in certain spots. You then use that to your advantage.
I think we're missing the last part.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 2:57 pm to burke985
KC Chiefs run a similar offense and seem to be doing just fine with the motion and hs stuff. Jet sweeps, shovel passes to the TE and WRs, etc. are all used every week.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 3:02 pm to sicboy
Oline fail.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 3:05 pm to LSUGrad9295
quote:
thought a lot of Canada's offense involved quick drops by the QB and quick-hitters to the receivers/tight ends/backs, etc.
You mean like Syracuse did all game long.
Posted on 9/25/17 at 3:05 pm to SabiDojo
Definitely would love to see the pistol implemented in some way. Give the QB full vision of the field with a few yards further between the QB and the DL. The QB doesn't have to think about deep drops and the RB can still get the ball downhill.
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