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A relevant comparison: John Cooper OSU/ Miles LSU
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:47 am
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:47 am
A relevant example to look at is the John Cooper era at Ohio State. He was compared to and never could live up to Woody Hayes, similar to Miles and Saban. Cooper went 111-43-4 at ohio state over 12 years. Good by any standard BUT 2-10 vs Michigan and 3-8 in bowls. He was 8-4 in his final season.
One of his biggest criticisms was he underachieved with NFL talent-Eddie George, Galloway, dan Wilkinson,Orlando Pace, Terry Glenn, David Boston,etc. he was perceived to be winning solely on talent but getting outcoached and losing to lesser talented teams. They were getting passed by teams with far less resources than Ohio State.(This should all sound eerily familiar)
He was the 2nd winningest coach in the history of the storied program. But the program had grown stale and was trending down. They could have stuck with Cooper and hoped for better days, but the replacement was made with Jim Tressel, who was already extremely successful coach at Youngstown. That started the upswing of national prominence the Buckeyes are still enjoying. Sure it could have gotten worse, but it certainly got better with the right hire.
ps: Cooper's last 4 seasons at OSU:
10-3
11-1
6-6
8-4
Why are schools like Alabama and Ohio state entitled to championship level programs, but LSU supposed to be content with being second tier?
One of his biggest criticisms was he underachieved with NFL talent-Eddie George, Galloway, dan Wilkinson,Orlando Pace, Terry Glenn, David Boston,etc. he was perceived to be winning solely on talent but getting outcoached and losing to lesser talented teams. They were getting passed by teams with far less resources than Ohio State.(This should all sound eerily familiar)
He was the 2nd winningest coach in the history of the storied program. But the program had grown stale and was trending down. They could have stuck with Cooper and hoped for better days, but the replacement was made with Jim Tressel, who was already extremely successful coach at Youngstown. That started the upswing of national prominence the Buckeyes are still enjoying. Sure it could have gotten worse, but it certainly got better with the right hire.
ps: Cooper's last 4 seasons at OSU:
10-3
11-1
6-6
8-4
Why are schools like Alabama and Ohio state entitled to championship level programs, but LSU supposed to be content with being second tier?
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 10:51 am
17
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:50 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Because LSU fans can't let go of the past
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:51 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Excellent comparison and post. 
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:51 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
but we are gonna go back to the 90's!
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:52 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
Why are schools like Alabama and Ohio state entitled to championship level programs, but LSU supposed to be content with being second tier
Because, according to the media, we've only had 5 ten win seasons in our program's history prior to Saban, and Miles has 7 while at LSU. In other words, because precisely because we're a second tier program and should know our fricking place.
Which is steaming hot garbage.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:53 am to LoveThatMoney
Exactly. What was FSU before Bowden? Or VTech before Beamer? nothing. Doesnt mean they should still be there.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 10:54 am
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:54 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Because what LSU did in the 70's matters now for some reason.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 10:58 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Not a bad comparison except Les never won 6 games at LSU and Cooper never won a national title.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:01 am to Fratigerguy
But Cooper won 3 conference titles to Miles' 2.
And not to take anything away from LSU's 2007 Title, but we were extremely fortunate to get into that game with 2 losses. Has never been done again. That's basically what all pro-Miles people are hanging their hat on- a very fortunate national championship in a season that we were easily the most talented team in the country but still lost 2 games to Arkansas and Kentucky.
Doesnt get much closer than Cooper/Miles.
Im sure some people were afraid firing Cooper would bring them back to the Earl Bruce days too.
And not to take anything away from LSU's 2007 Title, but we were extremely fortunate to get into that game with 2 losses. Has never been done again. That's basically what all pro-Miles people are hanging their hat on- a very fortunate national championship in a season that we were easily the most talented team in the country but still lost 2 games to Arkansas and Kentucky.
Doesnt get much closer than Cooper/Miles.
Im sure some people were afraid firing Cooper would bring them back to the Earl Bruce days too.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 11:09 am
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:05 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Tressel went 7-5 his first season, but beat Michigan. Would tRant accept that (7-5, but beating Bama), not knowing how the rest will play out?
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:05 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
It really is dumb. LSU used to not be able to afford to pay for position coaches to become coordinator's from the likes of Clemson. It's a completely different program. The natural resources were always there, they just started utilizing them under the direction of Emmert and Saban.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:08 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
A relevant example to look at is the John Cooper era at Ohio State. He was compared to and never could live up to Woody Hayes, similar to Miles and Saban. Cooper went 111-43-4 at ohio state over 12 years. Good by any standard BUT 2-10 vs Michigan and 3-8 in bowls. He was 8-4 in his final season. One of his biggest criticisms was he underachieved with NFL talent-Eddie George, Galloway, dan Wilkinson,Orlando Pace, Terry Glenn, David Boston,etc. he was perceived to be winning solely on talent but getting outcoached and losing to lesser talented teams. They were getting passed by teams with far less resources than Ohio State.(This should all sound eerily familiar) He was the 2nd winningest coach in the history of the storied program. But the program had grown stale and was trending down. They could have stuck with Cooper and hoped for better days, but the replacement was made with Jim Tressel, who was already extremely successful coach at Youngstown. That started the upswing of national prominence the Buckeyes are still enjoying. Sure it could have gotten worse, but it certainly got better with the right hire.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 11:11 am
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:10 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
I would love to get a long time Buckeyes fan take on this. Buckeyes poured a ton of elite talent into the NFL in the 90s but at the same time, Michigan was winning a NC.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:12 am to CRAZY 4 LSU
quote:
It really is dumb. LSU used to not be able to afford to pay for position coaches to become coordinator's from the likes of Clemson. It's a completely different program. The natural resources were always there, they just started utilizing them under the direction of Emmert and Saban.
Agree completely. And thats why im not scared of falling back in the 90s era dump. We were cheapskates back then, and now the boosters are throwing around 15 million buyouts like its chump change. LSU has learned that you have to pay to compete at the top.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:12 am to WalkingTurtles
One of my best friends is a die hard Buckeye fan. thats where i get my info. 
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:13 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
That's an excellent comparison.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:15 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Cooper
.715
3 Big Ten co-Championships
0 National Championships
unranked 5 times
ranked 8 times
top 10 3 times
Miles
.778
2 SEC Championships
1 National Championship
unranked 2 times
ranked 8 times
top 10 5 times
If Miles goes, he goes, and his successor is my guy. But don't insult Miles by comparing him to Cooper. He's way better than Cooper was. The rest of the world knows that LSU fans are insane, and that's not going to change. It's dumb for you people to want him gone so badly. Deal with it. You're dumb, and we all know it. Geaux Tigers.
.715
3 Big Ten co-Championships
0 National Championships
unranked 5 times
ranked 8 times
top 10 3 times
Miles
.778
2 SEC Championships
1 National Championship
unranked 2 times
ranked 8 times
top 10 5 times
If Miles goes, he goes, and his successor is my guy. But don't insult Miles by comparing him to Cooper. He's way better than Cooper was. The rest of the world knows that LSU fans are insane, and that's not going to change. It's dumb for you people to want him gone so badly. Deal with it. You're dumb, and we all know it. Geaux Tigers.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:16 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
The argument that LSU has placed a lot of NFL talent and thus should be this great team is a bad one.
Players going to the NFL means that you had some good position players. It also means that you lose some seniors. It is the overall player roster than counts.
Players going to the NFL means that you had some good position players. It also means that you lose some seniors. It is the overall player roster than counts.
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:18 am to ballscaster
its a comparison of the state of the 2 programs as much as it is miles/ cooper.
I challenge you to find a closer comparison in recent history.
Also keep in mind miles took over a well stocked fridge from saban, while cooper took over for Earl Bruce.
I challenge you to find a closer comparison in recent history.
Also keep in mind miles took over a well stocked fridge from saban, while cooper took over for Earl Bruce.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 11:21 am
Posted on 11/27/15 at 11:21 am to Fratigerguy
quote:
Not a bad comparison except Les never won 6 games at LSU and Cooper never won a national title.
John Cooper had 3 conference titles to Miles' 2. Cooper had 3 sub 2 loss seasons to Miles' 1. Cooper is actually very comparable to Miles. He won 10+ games 5 times in a 6 year stretch (and this was with 11 game regular seasons) but couldn't win his biggest game of the year every year. He then went 6-6 and 8-4 and was let go.
This post was edited on 11/27/15 at 11:22 am
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